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Old 04-06-2011, 06:08 PM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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soil food web

I had the oppurtunity to spend a couple of hours this morning with Dr. Ingham, recently named as Chief Scientist at The Rodale Institue. We will be bringing her to NJ this winter for a full day seminar.
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The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:14 PM
Tim Wilson Tim Wilson is offline
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Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
I had the oppurtunity to spend a couple of hours this morning with Dr. Ingham, recently named as Chief Scientist at The Rodale Institue. We will be bringing her to NJ this winter for a full day seminar.
Ya, Chief Scientist at a charitable institute and giving classes for money. Are the proceeds payable to Rodale? Of course her brewer 'The Dirt Simple' must be the best, seeing as she is Chief Scientist at Rodale so you better run out and buy it, nevermind the family business brewers who pushed her up that big hill. They are just fodder for the free enterprise system. Why is it that they usually ask people joining Non-profits and the White House to give up their commercial interests? Maybe she has. Are those proceeds going to Rodale?
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:27 PM
ChuckNC ChuckNC is offline
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Tim,
Dude, shhhh. Don't tell the anybody.
At least the truth, LOL.
As a under study in college we
had some of the best Phd's running the program
and NONE of them had anything for sale.

You have to wonder when a product or secret pill
is for sale, and maybe it is indirect?
We have seen that version many times in the past.
Chuck
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:34 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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What are you guys talking about? Anti-free enterprise or what? Not sure that you are making valid points about anything here...
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Old 04-07-2011, 02:23 PM
tadhussey tadhussey is offline
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Smallaxe,

I've had this discussion on other forums, but here's the crux of the issue:

You run a lab testing facility for composts and compost teas and education. You spend a decade testing other people's brewers. I know our company has spent over 100K with SFI over the years.

Now you go into business selling the very products you were testing, and using the information you've gathered at the expense of other companies? In addition, you're using your own lab to gather numbers which are higher than all the lab tests you've put out for other brewers/companies?

Dr. Ingham also gets appointed to Rodale. Like Tim mentioned, in order to eliminate any bias or personal interest, most of the time you're required to give up your commercial interests.

If you don't see a problem with any of this, that's fine. Personally, I'm not too happy about it. It really makes me question a lot of the "science" that she put out there, knowing she has personal gain in the process. I'm not saying she's wrong, but rather that I'm less likely to accept information at face value from SFI, and I'm certainly not going to be spending any more money getting lab tests. It would be like Nike spending money to have Reebok evaluate their shoes and decide if they were quality or not, and then Reebok using any info. they gain from their evaluation to make their own shoes better. What the advantage for Nike in this scenario? They're competitors in the same marketplace, which is something that I feel is ethically wrong for a lab, even if it is "free enterprise."
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:06 PM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadhussey View Post
Smallaxe,

I've had this discussion on other forums, but here's the crux of the issue:

You run a lab testing facility for composts and compost teas and education. You spend a decade testing other people's brewers. I know our company has spent over 100K with SFI over the years.

Now you go into business selling the very products you were testing, and using the information you've gathered at the expense of other companies? In addition, you're using your own lab to gather numbers which are higher than all the lab tests you've put out for other brewers/companies?

Dr. Ingham also gets appointed to Rodale. Like Tim mentioned, in order to eliminate any bias or personal interest, most of the time you're required to give up your commercial interests.

If you don't see a problem with any of this, that's fine. Personally, I'm not too happy about it. It really makes me question a lot of the "science" that she put out there, knowing she has personal gain in the process. I'm not saying she's wrong, but rather that I'm less likely to accept information at face value from SFI, and I'm certainly not going to be spending any more money getting lab tests. It would be like Nike spending money to have Reebok evaluate their shoes and decide if they were quality or not, and then Reebok using any info. they gain from their evaluation to make their own shoes better. What the advantage for Nike in this scenario? They're competitors in the same marketplace, which is something that I feel is ethically wrong for a lab, even if it is "free enterprise."
obviously the trip is over from drinking the coolaid, Tad, I am not picking on you at all but am continually amazed at the folks that drink the coolaid for many years. I agree with the message provided but do not buy the "it must be tested message" been there done that, wore out the shirt.

1: does the product/process being used make a difference for the positive? if not stop using the product/process
2. look to step 1
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:10 PM
Tim Wilson Tim Wilson is offline
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Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
obviously the trip is over from drinking the coolaid, Tad, I am not picking on you at all but am continually amazed at the folks that drink the coolaid for many years. I agree with the message provided but do not buy the "it must be tested message" been there done that, wore out the shirt.

1: does the product/process being used make a difference for the positive? if not stop using the product/process
2. look to step 1
What does any of that have to do with 'conflict of interest'?
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Old 04-07-2011, 08:13 PM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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Originally Posted by Tim Wilson View Post
What does any of that have to do with 'conflict of interest'?
I wasn't speaking to conflict of interest, just drinking the Dr E coolaid of testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing

if it works and it fits into your business plan use it, if not throw it out
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:11 PM
Tim Wilson Tim Wilson is offline
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Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
I wasn't speaking to conflict of interest, just drinking the Dr E coolaid of testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing testing

if it works and it fits into your business plan use it, if not throw it out
I agree but that was not really what was being discussed. I'm glad I never drank any but many did.
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Old 04-07-2011, 09:37 PM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
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I agree but that was not really what was being discussed. I'm glad I never drank any but many did.
and still do you see the folks on the CT yahoo they drill down to the enth degree for years and years and never get the point...........

does it work? then use it. If it doesn't work then try something else
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