Organic? Really?

[OrganicsMaine]

Care to expand on the results you saw, and a macro look at how you achieved them?

[americanlawn]

We received a customer renewal form this week. We previously treated his lawn 5 times per year (for the past 2 years) with XCU ferts . But this year, he only wants 3 apps (late spring, early fall, and late fall). His note at the bottom of the form: "Lawn has become too thick to mow. Need to cut back on applications" >> I thought that was funny/unusual.

Regarding Scotts: When it was "O.M. Scotts & Sons", they tried to steer customers away from natural organic fertilizer. But after they "reorganized", they openly recommend natural organic fertilizer. Kinda makes me wonder about Scotts (trust issue). I'm guessing they bought some of Barry's products and copied them.

my personal experience/2 cents worth

Originally Posted by phasthound

These are all great questions.
Health hazards due to exposure to pesticides are well documented. However few studies have been done on the cumulative effect of combinations of common pesticides. It is hard to draw direct conclusions, but if you can maintain healthy turf without them, why use pesticides?
Water quality issues are becoming more important every year and more restrictive legislation is becoming the norm. While some current and proposed legislation are knee jerk reactions, we do need to protect our water. I am not suggesting organic matter will not contaminate water, in fact animal manures and waste-water treatment plants are some of the main sources for concern.
Overuse of salt based fertilizers do inhibit beneficial microbes and weaken the plant enough that it requires more drugs, I mean pesticides. Many pesticides, especially fungicides will wipe out beneficials along with pathogens. The pathogens recover faster.
But, what convinced me to change my prospective was seeing the results.

[JDUtah]

Originally Posted by Smallaxe

It is still ad unanswered question:

What cultural practices would encourage the spread of AM fungi throughout a root system??

Proper moisture levels (for your lead in)

But perhaps more importantly... do not use compost as a fertilizer if you want to encourage AM infection...

[Kiril]

Originally Posted by JDUtah

But perhaps more importantly... do not use compost as a fertilizer if you want to encourage AM infection...

You of course have some credible publication to substantiate this statement?


http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/bitstream/10...ND44092427.pdf

http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/bitstream/10...ND44309395.pdf

http://www.springerlink.com/content/935293073lj76512/

[Smallaxe]

So there seems to be a consensus that, just not having too much water will benefit beneficial microbials, in general...
AM fungi in particular, do not appreciate P applications or tilling, as I recall. So does aeration cause a setback for the AMF that is already in the root system?
What is it about compost that would deter AMF but be helpful to most other benes?

[JDUtah]

Originally Posted by Smallaxe

What is it about compost that would deter AMF but be helpful to most other benes?

You answered your own question

Originally Posted by Smallaxe

in general... AM fungi in particular, do not appreciate P applications or tilling

[Kiril]

Originally Posted by JDUtah

You answered your own question

WOW JD .... then your comment was a whole new level of uninformed.

[JDUtah]

Originally Posted by Kiril

WOW JD .... then your comment was a whole new level of uninformed.

Kiril,

I actually found your links interesting and enlightening. I am sure others on this forum think the same as they do suggest a change in the mindset about P and AMF.

However...
If you really do want people to hear your voice and change, perhaps you should practice some tact and consideration in the way you "inform" people. I don't know, but to me it seems if you wouldn't be so condescending and dogmatic you may eventually be liked more than resisted/resented here on this forum.

Hey, you may even lay down for the night smiling for once.

[Kiril]

JD,

Perhaps if you had corrected yourself after reading the links .... but then, everyone who knows you on this forum is well aware of the reason for that post.

FYI, I don't really care if I am liked and you can keep your patronizing attitude to yourself.

[Smallaxe]

Originally Posted by JDUtah

You answered your own question

P is everywhere and in just about everything organic... Grass clippings left on the lawn would hve about the same P as compost... If 1-2% P in anything is going to diminish the AMF, then again...

"What can be done to increase the population, health and vigor of AM Fungi?"