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  #21  
Old 04-07-2011, 10:24 PM
GordonwJackson GordonwJackson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassesGuy View Post
Ok I just deteacted the first problem with this mower. You say components were agressively purchased and manuufactures that want to much money you excluded. Ok well most of the commercial grade mowers in the industry utilize the same components. So now the real question is how well does the mower hold up in real world operation. Not on a test lawn but on hills, ditches, transpoerted on trailers that hit pot holes, and of course hours of operation in all weather elements. THAT MY FRIEND IS THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION.
I look forward to your feedback after you try a mower. The industry is not THAT narrow. Peerless versus Hydro Gear versus Tuff Torque ...if you are starting from scratch you have choices and evaluating cost is certainly part of the equation. There is more than 1 alternative for each component. Each option was evaluated, tested and then selected based upon its merits. If a competitor has an existing legacy design that cannot accomodate the alternatives, they are stuck with a higher cost component until they do a redesign. That is the world all manufacturers find themselves in. The advantage of a clean-sheet design effort is the freedom to evaluate all the options before you get locked in.

By the way...GXi's standard drive system test is to drive a mower up a steep hill 30 feet, turn around and drive down the hill 30 feet...and then repeat...24/7...for 800 hours...at about 100F. This is done on a test fixture. No flat perfect lawns here!
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  #22  
Old 04-07-2011, 10:32 PM
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GMLC GMLC is offline
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You get what you pay for. There is no magic bullet for high quality low price components.(Maybe a sweat shop). Fabricated in china parcially assembled in the US.
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  #23  
Old 04-07-2011, 10:34 PM
GrassesGuy GrassesGuy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonwJackson View Post
I look forward to your feedback after you try a mower. The industry is not THAT narrow. Peerless versus Hydro Gear versus Tuff Torque ...if you are starting from scratch you have choices and evaluating cost is certainly part of the equation. There is more than 1 alternative for each component. Each option was evaluated, tested and then selected based upon its merits. If a competitor has an existing legacy design that cannot accomodate the alternatives, they are stuck with a higher cost component until they do a redesign. That is the world all manufacturers find themselves in. The advantage of a clean-sheet design effort is the freedom to evaluate all the options before you get locked in.

By the way...GXi's standard drive system test is to drive a mower up a steep hill 30 feet, turn around and drive down the hill 30 feet...and then repeat...24/7...for 800 hours...at about 100F. This is done on a test fixture. No flat perfect lawns here!
I'll tell you what partner you let me try it out for a season on the Eastern NE terrain of hills, mud, and wet slimey grass and I will give an honest opinion. I have a 30" RedHawk that I use on backyards that got small gates and it performs fantastic. Hey guess what it's got many of the same componets that Scag has. The only problem I've had with it is the recoil blowing out each year. People bash the Redhawks all day long on here but I will be the first to attest to there durability. So if you want an honest real world opinion I'm your man compadre. Of course I will have some explaining to do in regards to quality from cutting if I use it instead of the meat and potato's of my operation Everride if it fails. So what do you say cowboy you ready to test this Beast out? Just let me know what HD I need to go to and you can write it off as promotional use and if it performs I will buy it.

Last edited by GrassesGuy; 04-07-2011 at 10:38 PM.
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  #24  
Old 04-07-2011, 10:38 PM
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flatlander42 flatlander42 is offline
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You and 5k other members on this site. Free mowers for everybody!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassesGuy View Post
I'll tell you what partner you let me try it out for a season on the Eastern NE terrain of hills, mud, and wet slimey grass and I will give an honest opinion. I have a 30" RedHawk that I use on backyards that got small gates and it performs fantastic. Hey guess what it's got many of the same componets that Scag has. The only problem I've had with it is the recoil blowing out each year. People bash the Redhawks all day long on here but I will be the first to attest to there durability. So if you want an honest real world opinion I'm your man compadre. Of course I will have some explaining to do in regards to quality from cutting if I use it instead of my meat and potato's of my operation Everrides, if it fails. So what do you say cowboy you ready to test this Beast out? Just let me know what HD I need to go to and you can write it off as promotional use and if it performs I will buy it.
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  #25  
Old 04-07-2011, 10:47 PM
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BINKY1902 BINKY1902 is offline
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Originally Posted by Patriot Services View Post
Here's my question. Any other major manufacturer freely admits if a particular model is suited for "estate" or "LIGHT commercial" use. Nobody has a model that they feel comfortable labeling Professional or Commercial use anywhere near that price. What corners have been cut to reach that price point? I don't see a lot of Subaru engines in the commercial world. I hope they build better engines now then when they produced cars. Certain universal items such as pumps, motors, spindle assy are already at a set price regardless of which company bolts them on their frame. That leaves less metal and quality control as the only places to trim the fat. Or have the big manufacturers led us down the marketing path into believing a new ZTR really costs twice as much to produce?
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Subaru still builds cars, and high dollar ones at that. They build one of the baddest sports cars on the planet.
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  #26  
Old 04-07-2011, 10:58 PM
newz7151 newz7151 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonwJackson View Post
The mowers include a 3 year engine warranty and 2 year mower warranty for commercial duty service.
Gordon, this isn't a full 2 year warranty, is it? Trying to navigate the GXi website (given the large number of 404 errors when clicking on links), it looks like the warranty is Parts/Labor for the first 90 days, and then Parts only after that, which means the consumer (or entry level "commercial" cutter) had better have it known to them upfront and not in tiny 2pt font, that THEY will be the ones responsible for paying that portion to have it fixed under the "Warranty".

Also, while I am talking about Parts, you stated that (basically) when the mowers are being built, you are going with the lowest cost supplier at the time, whomever it is. Does this mean that when repairs are needed, that those same parts may be no longer available because the vendor for the parts may have gone up in price and GXi has changed the design to obsolete out those parts in new models, and therefore the dealer working on the mower will not be able to get some of the same fitting parts?
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  #27  
Old 04-07-2011, 11:04 PM
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BINKY1902 BINKY1902 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrassesGuy View Post
I'll tell you what partner you let me try it out for a season on the Eastern NE terrain of hills, mud, and wet slimey grass and I will give an honest opinion. I have a 30" RedHawk that I use on backyards that got small gates and it performs fantastic. Hey guess what it's got many of the same componets that Scag has. The only problem I've had with it is the recoil blowing out each year. People bash the Redhawks all day long on here but I will be the first to attest to there durability. So if you want an honest real world opinion I'm your man compadre. Of course I will have some explaining to do in regards to quality from cutting if I use it instead of the meat and potato's of my operation Everride if it fails. So what do you say cowboy you ready to test this Beast out? Just let me know what HD I need to go to and you can write it off as promotional use and if it performs I will buy it.

I have a Bradley/Redhawk as well, good, tough mower. I would buy another one in a minute.
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  #28  
Old 04-08-2011, 01:06 AM
capetrees capetrees is offline
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Gordon,
I tried to PM you but to no avail. I would like to try one but the local HD doesn't have the Beast mower. Any way I or you could get one to the local HD to rent or even buy? Instead of looking online, I'd rather look at it in person before buying.
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  #29  
Old 04-08-2011, 02:52 AM
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Greyst1 Greyst1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GordonwJackson View Post
I don't think there is any one single answer to this question. I do not have access to say Toro or John Deere's costs. I can speculate the biggest savings are approximately in the following order:

- No middle man or distributor
- Home Depot expects less margin than most local dealers require to operate
- GXi is a low overhead, lean organization (no corp. jets, marble HQs, million $ marketing budgets or big salary CEOs)
- The mowers take advantage of being clean sheet designs with no legacy carry-over issues.
- The mowers were specifically designed to be low cost to manufacture so complexity and cost were engineered out of many parts from the beginning.
- Components were selected after an aggressive purchasing process. Suppliers that wanted too much money for their parts we engineered out of the mowers in favor of suppliers that were cooperative.
- GXi is quite vertically integrated, allowing the company to select materials and processes that we know we can accomplish at a low cost (eg. we can galvanize less expensively than paint so all small parts are galvanized, we can cast some parts less expensively than machine them so we designed them to be cast, etc.)
- The mowers are deigned to be lowest cost possible to ship. Shipping costs are a significant cost driver. For instance the lower half of the roll bar is actually part of the shipping rack...so we can offer a roll bar at no extra charge...etc.
- GXi is aggressive. We know that to gain market share we must have a superior value proposition. There is no point going head-on with a similar mower to the incumbents, at the same dealers, with an $8,000 mower. There are enough companies competing there already (maybe too many).

Again, there is no "silver bullet" when it comes to cost. It is the result of a thousand decisions where each time, meeting cost targets was an objective, along with durability and performance.

The desire was to design a robust, durable line of mowers that cuts grass very well and include features most users desire in a commercial mower at the lowest possible cost. We think we have made some very good choices. We believe the mower is a very good, solid, capable machine. Landscapers are not a bashful group. If we made some bad choices we will surely hear about them on this site...and we will address them.

There is no such thing as "the perfect mower". Just look at all the lively discussion on this site! People argue all day long about Toro versus John Deere versus Hustler...etc. We hope we have struck a mix of performance / features / cost that appeals to a lot of users. We know we cannot please everybody. Thus feedback must be sorted through for "preferences" versus real "shortcomings". Your assistance with this is helpful.

We look forward to your feedback.

I will do my best to answer any other questions you may have.
Hello Gordon,

I've read every thread you've posted and i've told you a couple times i believe you are very educated in american mfg'n. Can you tell me what and where exactly the beast mowers are mfg'd? Please be specific on components, assemblies, etc.... Don't worry about the engine an if you said this already i'm sorry i must have missed it.

I know all to well how corporations save money but i also know how expensive it is to be a corporation so i can believe you when you say little overhead, no dealer network but i know the retailers margins (was a buyer for NWL, ((major supplier to lowe's, HD, Wallymart)) and they are not willing to expect less margin than a dealer or nay business. Maybe on commodities or an ABC items with 10 million plus per month in qty sold but HD less margin, not buying that at all.

Any how, i look forward to the details. Been frequenting my HD and still no beast mower. In addition to my Country of Origin ????'s, do you know when once will be coming to N. Canton Ohio?
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  #30  
Old 04-08-2011, 04:46 AM
GordonwJackson GordonwJackson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newz7151 View Post
Gordon, this isn't a full 2 year warranty, is it? Trying to navigate the GXi website (given the large number of 404 errors when clicking on links), it looks like the warranty is Parts/Labor for the first 90 days, and then Parts only after that, which means the consumer (or entry level "commercial" cutter) had better have it known to them upfront and not in tiny 2pt font, that THEY will be the ones responsible for paying that portion to have it fixed under the "Warranty".

Also, while I am talking about Parts, you stated that (basically) when the mowers are being built, you are going with the lowest cost supplier at the time, whomever it is. Does this mean that when repairs are needed, that those same parts may be no longer available because the vendor for the parts may have gone up in price and GXi has changed the design to obsolete out those parts in new models, and therefore the dealer working on the mower will not be able to get some of the same fitting parts?

Thank you for your inquiry. The warranty is a 2 year limited warranty on the mower and 3 year limited warranty on the engine. The only exclusions are consumables. Any other references are in error.

I never said part selections are made upon price alone. This is what YOU said. What I said was parts were selected and meeting cost objectives were part of the decision making process. The scenario you suggest related to parts availability is not what I described. How GXi maintains supplier contracts and ensures suppliers honor their price commitments is really a matter between ourselves and our suppliers and not a matter for the general public. Maintaining parts availability and backwards compatibility is of course a requirement for this industry.
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