Organic? Really?

[ChuckNC]

Howdy folks,
I'm not trying to a wiseguy or
P/O anybody, nor start a fight.

But I see, LC companies bragging they are organic
and they use 5% chicken manure and 95% chemical fert.
Granular. I see people writing about microbial activity
and not once have I seen anybody writing about Mycorrhiza.
I started study Mycorrhiza about 25 years ago, and to be
honest it didn't hake any difference if you use organic or chemical
fert., but if your Mycorrhiza levels are low your grass will never take
in the N-P-K values or micro nutrients. So I dug into the root
zone to check for mycorrhiza. Have You?

If you want to go back to basic chemistry anything that is Carbon
based is organic. Such as Nitroform.

But to answer any questions, I have run a Lawn care and tree care business. Growing fescue in the transition zone (big pain in the butt
in the Charlotte area) Very hot, humid, but very dry all at the same time.
Most fescue will die w/o irrigation, any warm season grass will thrive
and becomes a weed.

When the smoke clears, I don't see any benefit from organic
lawn care. I do think there is a clear market for people who will pay extra
for an organic program to create their personal green peace while they drive their prius to starbucks.

Anybody have other thoughts?

[Smallaxe]

Mycorriza is said to spread naturally, as it had b4, which gave us something to 'study' in the first place... So my question has been for a long time, If a population is low, what cultural practices should be engaged in to help them to increase their numbers...

In fact most beneficials must have a particular environment in which they would do better than the pathogens... Is that true???

[ICT Bill]

Originally Posted by Smallaxe

Mycorriza is said to spread naturally, as it had b4, which gave us something to 'study' in the first place... So my question has been for a long time, If a population is low, what cultural practices should be engaged in to help them to increase their numbers...

In fact most beneficials must have a particular environment in which they would do better than the pathogens... Is that true???

when a meteor slammed into the earth, i forget how many millions of years ago, and the earth had decades of darkness, the plants that had a fungal association lived and the ones that did not...........well did not

The fungal association or symbiotic relationship is something that should be always be nudges in the right direction

organic matter, no Phos, raw foods are always a good idea

[ChuckNC]

You are 100% correct, it is naturally occurring.
I know companies try to sell it in a bag or liquid,
but for turf I always mulched the clippings back into
the turf. Even if we had to cut it twice, (cross cut)
back then we had the Greatdane's 72" decks
and priced the xtra time for the jobs (super great striping look). Think about this every week tall fescue cut at 4" grew to 8" in week.
We controlled the irrigation, fertilizer and everything else.
I only pounded the N in 2 apps in the winter, the other
apps were 1/4 pound N. P & K sources were 1 pound.
So as I saw it all those grass clippings were a fertilizer
application. So I see it as the clippings for turf,
leaves and wood chips for trees, palm fronds & husk
for palms. The results are great.

(Please forgive any spelling, not feeling too well
stomach bug)

Thanks everybody.
Chuck

[Leo the Landscaper]

Mycorrhiza associations will naturally develop if we just manage the environment the right way. Think about the saying "if you build it, they will come." So focus on developing a healthy soil.

[americanlawn]

Before Scotts started selling 'natural organic' fert, their website contained pro's & con's regarding the 3 main types of fertilizer.

natural organic (fair)
inorganic (good)
synthetic organic (latest technology) (best)

Scotts has since removed this page from their site, but here's what they had to say about "natural" organic fertilizer:

1) Can contain unsafe pathogens (mammals)
2) Requires more product to do the job
3) Offensive odor
4) High cost per acre

Keep in mind this is BEFORE Scotts started selling "natural" organic fert. It was a good business decision on Scotts' part to remove their previous observations, cuz they saw a nitch, and they are taking advantage of it.

my 2 cents

[Kiril]

Don't forget Larry .... if it ain't in a bag .... you can't make a profit.

[ChuckNC]

I attended a semiar by the NC Extension service
and a Phd in pollution gave a talk about how NC
has the most polluted well water then any
other state in the US.

So I had to talk to him after his slide show
I told him I live in NC and worried about the
drinking water. He said, don't worry about
those test results. In N.C., farmers use a lot of
raw chicken fertilizer and the run off ends up in
streams, ground water run off, then to wells.
The salt level was off the chart. The test was taken
right after the application was completed.
If things are that hot, mycorrhizae and other symbiotic
relationships are lost.

Thanks to everybody replying.
Chuck

[americanlawn]

Thanks Kiril and ChuckNC -- I just emailed Scotts asking if they could forward their original "fert-type comparisons" (pro's & con's). I'm not holding my breath, but if I receive the info from Scotts, I'll post it on lawnsite.com. I figure lots of guys would like to see it too.

[Smallaxe]

It is still ad unanswered question:

What cultural practices would encourage the spread of AM fungi throughout a root system??