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Old 05-10-2011, 07:58 PM
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Hineline Hineline is offline
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First reno with TTTF

Heavy shade after 10 am. The soil is very sandy below a layer of OM that someone used in the last renovation. The ph is about 6. I'm throwing some dolomitic at about 25#'s/K and starter. I've never worked with TTTF but have learned from supplier that it is the best in shade trials and from some of the folks on here. I heard not to fertilize in the summer but what about during grow-in? Who has experience with making a great TTTF lawn?
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:14 PM
mdlwn1 mdlwn1 is offline
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I do...lots. It's basically KBG. It won't be as dense though and will not spread very fast laterally. Not sure about the summer feeding as I never really feed beyond late June. TTTF absolutely LOVES brown patch...so yeah...heavy fert/warm humidity and it will thin out over night. Unless your prepared to use a fungicide, I would definately try to keep it on the dry side going into challenging periods and for that matter most of the time as well. The key to TTTF is it doen't need the water that KBG/RYE/FF do all while darker in color. It will try to stand up very quickly after mowing, not lending itself very well to low mowing or striping. You can mow it low in the shade if your willing to mow as needed and keep a very light hand with the fert. We started using it in a KB/RYE/TTTF blend on renovations 20 years ago and never looked back. In New Jersey you can buy excellent quailty TTTF sod that comes with 15% KBG to hold it together. Not sure of your location but mixing in Rye and if posssible KBG is a winning combo. The Rye makes it solid and dense like carpet while the KBG will be aggressive where and when conditions allow for it. Use 2-4 varieties of TTTF if you can..like I said..brown patch will thin some varieties into nothing. Be patient..can take a while to establish...not as bad as FF..similar to blue. Just noticed the grow in comment....treat it like anything else your trying to push...just don't commit (scu) to far ahead.

Last edited by mdlwn1; 05-10-2011 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:32 PM
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Hineline Hineline is offline
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Thanks mdlwn1. The blend I bought has a bit of ff in it but sounds like I should spike it with a killer mix of blue/rye I use. I hear you on the the brown and the good perc will be helpful in the sandy soils but the customer's irrigation has a lot of overkill to it do to huge shade gardens that contain lots of ferns. I might need to adjust the overlapping sprinklers from different zones and keep the lawn on the dry side if I can. The property sits in a bit of a valley so my RH will be slightly higher. I might just put down the starter and some Milorganite to get it through grow-in and babysit it until this fall. Luckily I will be there throughout the summer on several projects to add new turf areas. Thanks for the heads up and stand by for any questions. I grew lots of K31 in the roughs at Weymouth CC....well, it grew all by itself. lol!
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:54 PM
mdlwn1 mdlwn1 is offline
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Just a thought on the milorganite....I am seeing intense color and not a whole lot of growth....it may or may not be what you would use to "push" a seed job through to completion...I've had very cool weather so far and the areas I seeded (TTTF) actually needed an extra shot of something to follow through. My feeling was the seed needed more N to push it....maybe P. My property is so large that no one can see it so I did nothing as I have plenty of time. Be prepared to follow up with starter again (obv depending on your soil fertility). Just keep in mind that at some point the FF in your blend will be pretty much the only thing there.

Last edited by mdlwn1; 05-10-2011 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:26 AM
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Hineline Hineline is offline
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I agree that a follow up app of starter will be a good idea on top of the Mil app. You had said that at some point the FF will be the only thing there. I take this as a suggestion to make sure I cut some good blues and ryes into the seed mix for a better stand of turf in the long run? I've got lots of quality seed mixes in the shop. I'll cut some of it in.

Last edited by Hineline; 05-12-2011 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:33 AM
mdlwn1 mdlwn1 is offline
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I always try to avoid fine fescue. Unless it's in the lawn already...I would def stay away from it....bent grass is really the only thing that can compete with it for square footage. FF is so dominant that it will crowd out ANYTHING (except bent)....If you want TTTF to be the dominant variety..as a test or whatever...do not use FF.
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:42 AM
mdlwn1 mdlwn1 is offline
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Just a side note. I only buy separate blends....bag of blue mix only..bag of rye mix...bag of TTTF mix and mix %'s depending on each individual location. Ex. if you really want TTTF to be the major factor in a location.....Full sun...5-15% rye could be included. Obv you could include KBG...but that would be dominant ..which is ok if thats what you are trying to do. In the shade you could actually include 10% KBG 5-15% rye as the KBG will only fill in where the sun allows it to..giving the turf the ability to repair itself quicker. ....Yes....in my opinion a KBG/TTTF/RYE mix is the ideal situation for a better stand of turf in the long run...generally speaking.

Last edited by mdlwn1; 05-12-2011 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:04 AM
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Hineline Hineline is offline
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I did two seedings that day. The first was 10K for a customer that has a backyard that had a bad cut with a dozer when the property was first built and they had taken out a ridge and left a subsoil hardpan and he lost most of the grass last summer. He didn't want to pay me to correct the problem with new grading and topsoil so I put down 400 lbs of dolomitic and 250 lbs of Milorganite and starter after aerifying in three directions. I slit seeded that in three directions with Blue/Rye and programmed the irr controller for grow-in. I went to my TTTF seeding and broadcast TTTF first then added a mix of TTTF/Blue/Rye to the machine and started seeding. The seeding chart for Fescue was way off and went through the first fill and put way too much down, added more mix and it started pouring. Hills and a slimy mix of organic top and the ryan don't mix and I made a mess of things so I got back yesterday and got through it all. I put out too much seed and will really have to watch the water this summer. Gonna come in thick.....too thick!!!!!!
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