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  #101  
Old 08-18-2011, 03:45 PM
dahammer dahammer is offline
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I have to agree with hammmerhead on this. I think you should have jumped at the refund - 10% deal and been done with this. You could have chalked that up as stupid tax and already been cruising around on your new Turf Tiger diesel by now. I doubt that deal is still on the table now though, since that bridge has probably been burned.

I figure the absolute best you can hope for now is that Bad Boy will swap out mowers with you or fix what ales yours. If you want to pursue through an attorney and/or the courts, you're probably looking at least half the cost of the mower in fees.
  #102  
Old 08-18-2011, 05:56 PM
smithfabinc smithfabinc is offline
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Originally Posted by dahammer View Post
I have to agree with hammmerhead on this. I think you should have jumped at the refund - 10% deal and been done with this. You could have chalked that up as stupid tax and already been cruising around on your new Turf Tiger diesel by now. I doubt that deal is still on the table now though, since that bridge has probably been burned.

I figure the absolute best you can hope for now is that Bad Boy will swap out mowers with you or fix what ales yours. If you want to pursue through an attorney and/or the courts, you're probably looking at least half the cost of the mower in fees.
we already spoke to an attorney, and the BBB, and we definately have a strong case against the dealer. There is no mention of any return policys on the invoice, or in the store about returning equipment. Bad Boy doesnt want to help unless I drag it up to a dealer out of my area, which I sort of understand, but bottom line is that it shouldnt be at my expense because of a jacked up dealer, and even if the mechanical issues are solved, its still not going to have the cut quality I was promised with the old style deck. Thats why we arent satified with the machine. I could give you a big list of stuff that I dont like about it, but the only way I would have known is to demo this machine, which no one offered.(lesson learned) I bought the machine in good faith that what the dealer was telling me was true, and that it was going to be as good as what I had before, and its not even close. Ive been operating z mowers for 11 years, and usually dont have a problem tearing the turf on a turn around, but I will guarantee you this, unless you have concrete to turn around on, this machine WILL dig up the turf. I thought it was just me until I had another guy ride it and he said the same thing. Im guessing that it has alot to do with the negative camber in both rear tires that have most of the pressure on the outer edge of the contact patch. every other mower we see is at 0deg to run the tire level with the ground so as to put an even load on the entire contact patch. This mower is WAY too heavy to be running camber in the rear tires, and all thats going to do is wear out tires faster. I came from a racing background, and this thing doesnt have near enough travel to worry about camber gain, so Im not sure why its built like that.
  #103  
Old 08-18-2011, 07:24 PM
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LibertyFarmLandscaping LibertyFarmLandscaping is online now
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Originally Posted by kb9nvh View Post
There you have it!! if you make your living with your mower, its probably more important to shop dealer than it is to shop machine. That said, I wonder how a frame gets cracked on one of these heavy machines like the outlaw? I would to see pictures of how and where the crack occurred to see if it looks like a factory screw up or super hard use/abuse. My lighting is mowing 2 acres that really ate up a 60" swisher trail mower. After 4 years I was welding on that trailmower all the time. Also, it was way underpowered with a 14hp kohler. granted, pulling with a polaris 4 wheeler, I may have tended to go faster than I would have pulling with something else that may have contributed to my poor mowing experience with the trailmower.
It's a factory problem. Another LCO in the area bought 2 of them from Retro and both frames cracked, and had to be welded. We run into each other at the gas station from time to time, and he showed me where both of his were welded in the same place. It's right over the top of both wheel motors. Cracked on both sides.

The new prototype Outlaw has a completely new designed frame. So apparently this was a wide spread problem. Also has the parker style pumps. No other changes except suspension like the Lightening. I was hoping for a Scag style deck. It has worked well for Ferris/ Snapper Pro going this route with the ICD deck. Night and day difference. I haven't demoed the new Hustler deck that is basically the same as a Scag deck, but they say it is a great improvement as well.

Last edited by LibertyFarmLandscaping; 08-18-2011 at 07:32 PM.
  #104  
Old 08-18-2011, 07:27 PM
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LibertyFarmLandscaping LibertyFarmLandscaping is online now
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Originally Posted by smithfabinc View Post
We wanted a diesel, and the scag diesel IS a great mower, and they do cut very well wet or dry with the velocity deck. I was promised that this Bad Boy would do the same for about 3 grand less. Its is in no way even close to the same cut quality. As I said before, there are several dealers close to here, that carry scag, wright, exmark, hustler, and most of the Brands that have been around a long time. Not nocking scag at all, but the price of their turf tiger diesel is around 15K, but as the saying goes "you really do get what you pay for!"
..........Lesson learned. You must never take anyones word. Always demo the machine yourself before purchase, and if they won't provide a demo walk out the door.

Last edited by LibertyFarmLandscaping; 08-18-2011 at 07:35 PM.
  #105  
Old 08-18-2011, 08:18 PM
smithfabinc smithfabinc is offline
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Originally Posted by LibertyFarmLandscaping View Post
..........Lesson learned. You must never take anyones word. Always demo the machine yourself before purchase, and if they won't provide a demo walk out the door.
You got that right! Exmark, Wright, grasshopper, and all the others around here had no problem providing a demo, and those dealers even offered to bring it to me. Guess that speaks for itself about this whole ordeal. If a company is going to market to commercial guys, I would think they would spend a little less on the exibit at seaworld, and get some demo mowers out there. But, I guess thats the crowd they are after, the homeowner that "thinks" he bought a true commercial grade mower. All I can say is that if they want to be a big name in the commercial market, they need to focus on cut quality and reliability, not wings and dual exhaust on a mower.
  #106  
Old 08-18-2011, 08:25 PM
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Greyst1 Greyst1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyFarmLandscaping View Post
..........Lesson learned. You must never take anyones word. Always demo the machine yourself before purchase, and if they won't provide a demo walk out the door.
X2X2X2, I couldn't agree more. I'm in my 4th week of demo's, and have 4 more weeks to go. I never trust a dealer until i run it and see what she can do. 10K is allot of cheese so better be safe than sorry.

To the OP, i hope you get what you want out of this. I would sue the dealer just to make him spend money on a defense. There is no reason why he is not standing behind his product. A story like this is just plain disgusting.
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  #107  
Old 08-18-2011, 09:05 PM
smithfabinc smithfabinc is offline
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Originally Posted by Greyst1 View Post
X2X2X2, I couldn't agree more. I'm in my 4th week of demo's, and have 4 more weeks to go. I never trust a dealer until i run it and see what she can do. 10K is allot of cheese so better be safe than sorry.

To the OP, i hope you get what you want out of this. I would sue the dealer just to make him spend money on a defense. There is no reason why he is not standing behind his product. A story like this is just plain disgusting.
You are right, I guess this dealer doesnt realize that me taking him to court is going to cost him WAY more than just giving us a refund and being done with the problem. I also guess the way he is treating us is because he knows he shot me a bunch of BS just to make a sale. Heck, the day I went to the dealership to buy the mower, I was running late to get there, and I called and He said he would wait, and when I got there - nothin but crickets chirpin! I think that was my sign from the good Lord above to just GO HOME and forget this guy. Even though I was running late to get there, he never even called to see if i was still coming. If I had a guy that was on his way to spend that kind of money, I think I could have been a little more patient.....lol. Live and Learn I guess. Does Bad Boy not evaluate these dealers before they sign them up to represent their product?
  #108  
Old 08-19-2011, 01:22 AM
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MJB MJB is offline
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Actually they improved the deck. The discharge opening is now 18 inches, they also have a baffle around the left blade opening into the center, the mower works good with hi lifts. Since I put Scag blades on my 2010 Outlaw I never have to scrape the deck anymore while cutting wet KBG and Fescue all day long. In fact it shoots the grass over 3 passes if there is no wind. Who would of thought those blades had that much lift. No cracks as of yet, knock on wood.

The new frame is basically an inch higher for the suspension system to work , also why they added pumps and wheel motors, so the suspension would work.
But the cog is still the same as the old Outlaw. The old Outlaw frame tapered down in the back the new frame is stronger being straight. Nice to see them making improvements each year, but they still are playing catch up .
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  #109  
Old 08-19-2011, 04:01 AM
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LibertyFarmLandscaping LibertyFarmLandscaping is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJB View Post
Actually they improved the deck. The discharge opening is now 18 inches, they also have a baffle around the left blade opening into the center, the mower works good with hi lifts. Since I put Scag blades on my 2010 Outlaw I never have to scrape the deck anymore while cutting wet KBG and Fescue all day long. In fact it shoots the grass over 3 passes if there is no wind. Who would of thought those blades had that much lift. No cracks as of yet, knock on wood.

The new frame is basically an inch higher for the suspension system to work , also why they added pumps and wheel motors, so the suspension would work.
But the cog is still the same as the old Outlaw. The old Outlaw frame tapered down in the back the new frame is stronger being straight. Nice to see them making improvements each year, but they still are playing catch up .
We ran the mower for 3 hours. I ran it for about an hour with the stock BB blades. It did ok on bermuda and st augustine, but had to make 2 passes and sometimes 3 on bahia mixed grass. While the Velocity cut in 1 pass. So I put the Scag blades on. I still had to make 2 passes, but could see improvement over the stock blades. Also need to loosen the dampners up. It's like a serious forearm work out to steer.

Yes it is nice to see them making efforts to improve, and I'm glad you have had no problems with your frame.
  #110  
Old 08-19-2011, 09:16 AM
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MOHUSTLER MOHUSTLER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LibertyFarmLandscaping View Post
We ran the mower for 3 hours. I ran it for about an hour with the stock BB blades. It did ok on bermuda and st augustine, but had to make 2 passes and sometimes 3 on bahia mixed grass. While the Velocity cut in 1 pass. So I put the Scag blades on. I still had to make 2 passes, but could see improvement over the stock blades. Also need to loosen the dampners up. It's like a serious forearm work out to steer.

Yes it is nice to see them making efforts to improve, and I'm glad you have had no problems with your frame.

This is something I will never understand. I think everyone on here is in the same boat that they are all switching thier blades to a different kind of blade to get a better cut. No mower company owns the blade they put on the mower besides dixie chopper on that X blade. I think they do own that design. But why on earth would BB not try out 10-20 diff blades before sending thier mower out. Thats so easy to do its not even funny.

It seems to me like they got a discount on some cheap blade and ran with it. I remeber talking to the hustler guys about the new deck and they said they tried some 15 diff blade setups all around the country to find the best fit.



By the way I hope you do get this resolved either by another dealer or the court system. I think that if you would be happy if the rep came and took them to another dealer, they are absoutley foolish not to have the rep drive however far it is to haul it to another dealer. That would be an easy way to keep all parties happy. And the rep can leave you with a loaner until yours gets fixed.

I dont know why BB has not at least attempeted this yet.....Seems like they have really pushed you aside and onto thier next ad campaign.
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