has anyone done a pondless system that functions for drainage?

[STL Ponds and Waterfalls]

Originally Posted by Mr. Vern

STL - I agree on the small area. Although, I have considered if a guy could tie all of the runoff from irrigating into a large enough basin (perhaps under a driveway using the permeable pavers), then one could conceivably reduce water use by as much as 60% or more. The problem is the cost of such a system and the potential for maintenance issues, not to mention the contamination potential from washing vehicles, etc... Neat to think about though.

I can't wait to do a permeablr driveway with a Rainwater system. Contamination might not be what you think with the benefits of the filtration that a permeable system has. Think about the parking lot systems that runoff into creeks and sewer systems, they are suppose to be great filters.

[tadpole]

Originally Posted by andyslawncare

I think you guys misunderstood my price idea... attached is a photo of how most of my creek beds look. It would be the current charge of 800 per 35' for the creek bed, then 50% added to it, and $1500 to get the basin and pump set up. This way I could do 35' for 2700; a 70' long for 3900. I guess a high volume pump may drive the cost up a little in materials. The only other labor would mainly be to construct the basin, use pond liner instead of fabric, and run the plumbing. I guess an option to use it if its dry or rainy would be to install a water line and a float valve.

Most waterfalls I see around are more complex and require greater elevation drop. My pricing estimate here would include no water fall foam or large drops, etc...

If you are using fabric as a base for your creek beds, it would have to be replaced with liner and, I agree, reduce the amount of cobble used and replace it with medium and large gravel.

Originally Posted by STL Ponds and Waterfalls

I can't wait to do a permeablr driveway with a Rainwater system. Contamination might not be what you think with the benefits of the filtration that a permeable system has. Think about the parking lot systems that runoff into creeks and sewer systems, they are suppose to be great filters.

I question the claim that permeable pavings are good filters. If they were, they would clog up the same as would any other filter and they also have no capacity to break down Hydrocarbons which are a parking areas primary pollutant. This is the primary advantage to the environment that permeable pavings contribute. Most, if not all, pollutants are allowed to 'permeate' through the pavings directly into the ground, INSTEAD of being carried away in run-off to contaminate streams and other natural water ways.

[STL Ponds and Waterfalls]

I havent any test but that is what I was told when we did a permeable parking lot that was connected to a stream. Problem is without independant testing how can you really determine the filtering realities.

[tadpole]

Originally Posted by STL Ponds and Waterfalls

I havent any test but that is what I was told when we did a permeable parking lot that was connected to a stream. Problem is without independant testing how can you really determine the filtering realities.

This is absolutely true of ANY manufacturer's claim of product performance. Common sense will tell you that if a product 'filters' it removes and holds whatever substance(s) may have been in solution. Over time these removed substances build up and the said product will clog. In this case, the permeable paving would become impermeable and no different than any other paving material.

[Mr. Vern]

With regard to the filtration claims I don't think the filter is the paving as much as it is the gravel in the water feature. I think that emulating nature is the best way to filter pollutants, but my cocern is whether the chemicals can be filtered effectively and quickly enough for irrigation purposes. I suppose I may have to build one to find out.

[STL Ponds and Waterfalls]

As far as clogging they are suppose to be on a cleaning schedule to keep them clear. The job we did I thought the GC said they have to clean theirs once a year. Plus, they are designed for a certain percentage of clogging. We'll find out as more permeables are built and grow out of their infancy.

[andyslawncare]

I agree with smaller inside stones if something like this is built. I have worked on waterfalls before, and understand the head pressure and flow rate ratios. This particular property's picture is not being considered for a conversion, but I'm playing with ideas in my head for other properties that I bid which will receive similar treatment. I use the larger stones on many of my creek beds, I like to use the medium river flats because they draw attention where I want the attention to be taken to. I don't think on a property like this I would want a really flashy over the stone look...I'm thinking more along the lines of the sound and the visible while passing by it. I may not make sense, and that's why its just an idea still.