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  #21  
Old 07-04-2011, 04:58 PM
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RABBITMAN11 RABBITMAN11 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherhomeowner View Post
The article states the symptoms seen are: " lush new growth at branch tips, and dead or absent needles on the rest of the branch."

As far as I know that's completely different from what everyone is seeing with imprelis (new growth curling up and dying). Also it will be hard for them to use that excuse with imprelis since in many cases neighboring properties have the same cultivar of tree and same weather conditions but look perfectly fine while the imprelis property shows dying trees.
Tissue samples will show uptake of the acid compounds found in imprellis. Bottom line if they try and play this off every lawn care company and turf supplier in the country will turn on them. Lawyers will be waiting like sharks to take this one on. Its in their best interest to handle this responsibly. Check the formulations and try to figure out what is the real cause for this kind of damage to trees.
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  #22  
Old 07-04-2011, 05:41 PM
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Heidi J. Heidi J. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherhomeowner View Post
The article states the symptoms seen are: " lush new growth at branch tips, and dead or absent needles on the rest of the branch."

As far as I know that's completely different from what everyone is seeing with imprelis (new growth curling up and dying). Also it will be hard for them to use that excuse with imprelis since in many cases neighboring properties have the same cultivar of tree and same weather conditions but look perfectly fine while the imprelis property shows dying trees.
I was just giving an example of the damage being seen on Spruce this year. I was simply showing there are a lot of problems this year due to the weather. One being the excessive amout of rain that possibly caused the product to leech. Also, another thing in the article said the Colorados are not native to Michigan and not used to the native weather here.
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  #23  
Old 07-04-2011, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Heidi J. View Post
But it may be just as hard to disprove anything as well..The weather we had this Spring was extraordinarilly wet. There are articles everywhere with the weather playing havoc on Spruce/Pine.

Colorado blue spruce trees latest casualty of wet spring

Article

Dupont will do anything and everything to disprove Imprelis hurt anything. Just saying..
but i have the same damage and we have had dry conditons all year. that is why that statement means nothing to me especially in favor of them
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  #24  
Old 07-04-2011, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherhomeowner View Post
The article states the symptoms seen are: " lush new growth at branch tips, and dead or absent needles on the rest of the branch."

As far as I know that's completely different from what everyone is seeing with imprelis (new growth curling up and dying). Also it will be hard for them to use that excuse with imprelis since in many cases neighboring properties have the same cultivar of tree and same weather conditions but look perfectly fine while the imprelis property shows dying trees.
straight up
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  #25  
Old 07-04-2011, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RABBITMAN11 View Post
Tissue samples will show uptake of the acid compounds found in imprellis. Bottom line if they try and play this off every lawn care company and turf supplier in the country will turn on them. Lawyers will be waiting like sharks to take this one on. Its in their best interest to handle this responsibly. Check the formulations and try to figure out what is the real cause for this kind of damage to trees.
i am very sure they are on what the cause is and have or will be testing their batches to ensure correct formulations.
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  #26  
Old 07-05-2011, 12:32 AM
cod8825 cod8825 is offline
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DuPont will easily survive this to what degree of damage that they take I believe is mostly in their hands. They have options of fighting it with every LCO, distributor and user out their of they go to the other extreme and admit fault and pay for damages. I believe that outcome will be somewhere in the middle. If anything stupid, gross neglegence mistakes don't destroy large established companies often. I mean look at BP they are still operating here in US even after one of the worst oil spills in the history of mankind.

You would think with a mistake like that they would have gone under in like a day.

Matt
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  #27  
Old 07-05-2011, 11:22 AM
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I am not sure that any test would show an indication of the aminocyclopyrachlor in the tree tissue itself--it may be metabolized within the tree cells. Or it may be long gone. In any case it might be wise to take tree samples (in front of a witness) and freeze them in case future testing is possible. Get dated photos of course--this could drag out for years. Before and after photos would be nice.

Consider getting soil samples, where perhaps Imprelis can still be detected; seal in a jar and freeze, for later laboratory analysis.

Contact your insurance company.
If your insurance company agrees, replace the badly affected trees. Prompt action satisfies your customers a lot better than long delays, excuses or stalling. What has your insurance company said--if anyone has talked to their claims adjuster?

Good question--will there be a shortage of medium and large blue spruce trees in the nursery trade? At any price? Is it safe to transplant a big blue spruce in hot weather? Tree spade work, of course.

Are there any signs of recovery? worsening? Can the trees be pruned? Treatments: activated charcoal to absorb the chemical? Heavy watering to dilute it? Feeding with soil injected fertilizers? Trunk injected micronutrients? Do tree service companies have any plans or ideas?
Your customers may expect you to try something--anything.

Lets be alert for the first signs or excuses that will try to blame the problem on something or someone else. Let us know what your hear as soon as possible.
Thanks Heidi for the first excuse--blaming it on wet weather and fungal disease.

Last edited by RigglePLC; 07-05-2011 at 11:24 AM. Reason: add
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  #28  
Old 07-05-2011, 11:43 AM
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http://www2.dupont.com/Professional_...ers_061711.pdf

In his June 17 letter Michael McDermott of Dupont hinted at the tactis that they might employ. He mentions that other chemicals were often mixed with Imprelis (so they might blame the other products). He stated that mixing errors may have occurred. And he asserts that most LCOs had good results and no problems. (Perhaps suggesting imcompetent workers caused problems).

And read the label carefully--particularly page 9. Limited waranty and disclaimer of liability:
The manufacturer warrants only that...


Did you follow the label? Did you perform a jar compatibility test as the label instructs? Add the products in the correct order. Did you use nozzles and pressure that would prevent drift. Do you have a record of wind speed for that day?

Last edited by RigglePLC; 07-05-2011 at 11:52 AM. Reason: added
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  #29  
Old 07-05-2011, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RigglePLC View Post
I am not sure that any test would show an indication of the aminocyclopyrachlor in the tree tissue itself--it may be metabolized within the tree cells. Or it may be long gone. In any case it might be wise to take tree samples (in front of a witness) and freeze them in case future testing is possible.
I'm going to have to agree with that assumption. From what I understand, the carboxylic acids concentrate in the meristemic region of the plant affected. The damage shown might not have had any chemical signs of the carboxylic acid.

The best tissue sample would probably come from where the base of the tree meets the root system.


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  #30  
Old 07-05-2011, 04:34 PM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arborist View Post
there is a lot of concern about this product im not taking anyone side with this situation cause it could be the product and it could be loader applicator error. i could go on about the pro and con of herbicide. I am a ceritified arborist with 12 yrs experience and own my own tree and lawn care company. Im just saying there is going to be alot of finger pointing both ways. wrong labeling not enough testing, applicator mixing too strong applying in wrong areas applying to much. its a sticky situation. one thing i hope every has learned from this product is to not trust new products unless they have been out for at least a year or two.
The problem being how widespread of an issue this is. But Riggle has pointed out DuPont's potential strategies. Probably cheaper to fight individual claims based on those possibilities than admit they screwed up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heidi J. View Post
One being the excessive amout of rain that possibly caused the product to leech.
And on the flip side, the excessive amount of rain should have diluted it, possibly to the point of not being effective.
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