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  #11  
Old 06-29-2011, 11:56 AM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snapper12 View Post
ICT Bill, what is warm or hot compost? What temp are you talking about.
warm or hot compost refers to the concentration of mineral nutrients. it doesn't directly refer to how warm your compost is. particularly N. if the compost is not mature enough the soluble nutrients are too concentrated and you can burn your plants like you can by applying to much chemical fertilizer.
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  #12  
Old 06-30-2011, 08:34 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
Yes Smallaxe, the gas losses besides carbon dioxide and methane (which have little to do with soil plant nutrition) include hydrogen sulfide and ammonia. No other nutrients are lost through gassing (leaching is another story, but that holds true for both types of compost).

However, if using a pile with proper proportion of feedstock (C to N ratio) you don't have to worry about gassing off to much regardless if it is aerobic or anaerobic. And even if you do get the losses, they are relatively minimal.

No other nutrients are lost! The claim that "[anaerobic compost] is basically fluff it has been all used up and mostly gassed off" is exaggerated. Only two plant nutrients are potentially lost as gas and this loss is minimal.

Besides, you aren't applying compost for it's nutrient value anyway! You are applying it for its "fluffy", "nutrient sticky", and relatively stable organic compounds.

Now, growing a plant in media that is anaerobic is a completely different story. Don't confuse the guy by combining the two issues please (anaerobic digestion in compost, and anaerobic soil conditions). If you are going to apply anaerobic compost it is best to let it dry then turn it. This will allow the phytotoxic gasses to escape. Once incorporated into your soil you do not really need to worry about it returning to anaerobic conditions.

So again... YES use that compost! Just air it out before you do and you will be fine!
So the idea that generations of twigs and leaves that fall into a wetland and turn to unrecognizeable black material and even becomes a rootzone for aquatic/swamp plants, would be different than twigs and leaves turned into unrecognizeable black material above the water is really nothing of great significance?

Another interestting source of non-human developed compost is the bottom of a forestted valley that has the accumulation of generations of twigs and leaves...

Do we think that the compost we make out of the same materials in a few weeks, is somehow of higher quality than what was formed naturally on the forest floor?
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #13  
Old 06-30-2011, 08:21 PM
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JDUtah JDUtah is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
So the idea that generations of twigs and leaves that fall into a wetland and turn to unrecognizeable black material and even becomes a rootzone for aquatic/swamp plants, would be different than twigs and leaves turned into unrecognizeable black material above the water is really nothing of great significance?

Another interestting source of non-human developed compost is the bottom of a forestted valley that has the accumulation of generations of twigs and leaves...

Do we think that the compost we make out of the same materials in a few weeks, is somehow of higher quality than what was formed naturally on the forest floor?
Of course they are different, especially in the different ecosystems. However, as something to add to your soil you can use both for similar reasons. My point is simply that the OP CAN and SHOULD use his compost even if it hit a stage of anaerobic decomposition (as most piles do at some point)
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  #14  
Old 07-02-2011, 08:40 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by JDUtah View Post
Of course they are different, especially in the different ecosystems. ...
What would be different?
Let's stick with the common twigs and leaves in any given area.
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #15  
Old 07-03-2011, 04:46 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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OK... all bs aside... and the semantics that go with it...

What does twigs and leaves turn into, when they are decomposed into their constituent elements... If there was Fe, Ca, Zn in their bodies when they died, do those elements 'disappear' under anaerobic conditions?

I'm not sure what is complicating the discussion, but calling it EM or Compost, one could just call it decomp.

Different microbes do things a bit differently, but don't they all come up with the same result?
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #16  
Old 07-04-2011, 12:51 AM
Dchall_San_Antonio Dchall_San_Antonio is offline
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Snapper12 asked, "ICT Bill, what is warm or hot compost? What temp are you talking about. "

When organic materials decompose, heat is generated. Under the proper conditions, compost will heat to 120, 150 and even 170 degrees F. One San Antonio compost professional has even cooked a turkey in his compost. As the decomposition proceeds past the heated state, it cools off. Hot, or even warm compost should not be used as it can heat plant tissues and kill them. Finished compost is distinguished by having cooled off to room temperature. If it is moist it should feel cool. If it is dry, it should feel the same temp as the surrounding air. If it is warm, don't use it until it cools off.

Anaerobically processed sewage waste is used all the time in agriculture; however, I suspect the OP is not talking about that material. If your personal compost pile becomes anaerobic, then just fluffing it up will restore the air to the pile and it will quickly become aerobic again. If there is a hurry to use it while it is still in the anaerobic state, I would resist simply to allow it to get some air.

Anaerobic compost will likely be offgassing nitrogen (ammonia smell) and carbon (methane smell). In the first case you have wasted valuable protein, amino acids, and ultimately the nitrogen value from those materials. In the second you have wasted carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are organic matter. They are food for bacteria and critical to the life of a pile and soil. Dry leaves and finished compost have the amazing ability to absorb the gasses and hold them for proper compost and decomposition. If you have a pile that has gone anaerobic, the fix is to fluff the pile and cover it with several inches of dry leaves or finished compost from another part of the pile.
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  #17  
Old 07-04-2011, 02:19 PM
Tim Wilson Tim Wilson is offline
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Thank you David for the straight story.
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  #18  
Old 07-06-2011, 01:30 AM
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Please explain how Methane (CH4) somehow releases more carbon than Carbon Dioxide (CO2)?... as it seems this is what is believed.

Btw, most the smell of anaerobic decomposition isn't from the methane, but rather the Sulfur being released (which isn't lost carbon)
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