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  #11  
Old 07-18-2011, 12:07 PM
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HayBay HayBay is offline
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Quote:
I personally think there is nothing wrong with an organic program that allows for occasional spot treatments when required to control outbreaks and a few weeds.
That is the story you will get, right there

Organic but spot sprayed when needed. (people used to call this a bridge program)

Take away the 2,4-D and you are going to have a lot of weeds.
Unless you spend 10 times (at least) as much on irrigation, seeding, hand weeding and more hand weeding.
It would become a full time job to maintain just 1 property.

Chip Osborne Knows how to maintain an organic turf, at $100,000 - $300,000 a year in costs.
Chip Osborne helped put together an Organic Municipal Lawn Program in Colorado, it cost $300,000 a year to hand weed, goats and put out predator bugs, aerate, overseed.
They used to spend $15,000 a year on Glyphosate and 2,4-D


Thick Healthy Lawn that crowds out weeds? You mean Chemical Applicators don't want this kind of results too? Its not just an organic thing. Cultural practices are nothing new.

Check out Jeff Carlsons stuff, the Super at Marthas Vineyard Golf Club, $350,000 a year membership. He will tell you about organic. They are 80% organic. Dont be upset when you hear compost tea was a failure for him. They spent about $20,000 -$30,000 in labor a year to hand pick weeds

Cornells, Frank Rossi lost his funding for his organic program at Bethpage Golf Club. He was only maintaining practice tees organically and it was not working out very well.


My favorite is when there are no other organic products on the market at the time and the lawns look like failures, they start ranting about imprelis in the groud water, and everyones gonna die.

You basically have 3 years from the date of no Pesticide inputs to watch the turf turn into a weed/turf combination.

There are exceptions, but very very few. If you think you can maintain 50 customers lawns organically and there will be very little weeds to no weeds present. You will be wrong. Just imagine 500-1000 customers.

I remember when using 2,4-D in the past there was very little product required to maintain a yard.
With Alternative Products you are using gallons of active ingredient compared to ounces of it and the results are still no good.

Pray that 2,4-D is not banned in your neighbourhood

Last edited by HayBay; 07-18-2011 at 12:14 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-18-2011, 12:53 PM
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Ric Ric is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayBay View Post
That is the story you will get, right there

Organic but spot sprayed when needed. (people used to call this a bridge program)

Take away the 2,4-D and you are going to have a lot of weeds.
Unless you spend 10 times (at least) as much on irrigation, seeding, hand weeding and more hand weeding.
It would become a full time job to maintain just 1 property.

Chip Osborne Knows how to maintain an organic turf, at $100,000 - $300,000 a year in costs.
Chip Osborne helped put together an Organic Municipal Lawn Program in Colorado, it cost $300,000 a year to hand weed, goats and put out predator bugs, aerate, overseed.
They used to spend $15,000 a year on Glyphosate and 2,4-D


Thick Healthy Lawn that crowds out weeds? You mean Chemical Applicators don't want this kind of results too? Its not just an organic thing. Cultural practices are nothing new.

Check out Jeff Carlsons stuff, the Super at Marthas Vineyard Golf Club, $350,000 a year membership. He will tell you about organic. They are 80% organic. Dont be upset when you hear compost tea was a failure for him. They spent about $20,000 -$30,000 in labor a year to hand pick weeds

Cornells, Frank Rossi lost his funding for his organic program at Bethpage Golf Club. He was only maintaining practice tees organically and it was not working out very well.


My favorite is when there are no other organic products on the market at the time and the lawns look like failures, they start ranting about imprelis in the groud water, and everyones gonna die.

You basically have 3 years from the date of no Pesticide inputs to watch the turf turn into a weed/turf combination.

There are exceptions, but very very few. If you think you can maintain 50 customers lawns organically and there will be very little weeds to no weeds present. You will be wrong. Just imagine 500-1000 customers.

I remember when using 2,4-D in the past there was very little product required to maintain a yard.
With Alternative Products you are using gallons of active ingredient compared to ounces of it and the results are still no good.

Pray that 2,4-D is not banned in your neighbourhood

Older Member will appreciate a Quote from the infamous Lawrence Stone. BTW I am not taking the time to actually find the Quote in the archives.

Quote:
I hope you have a 5 ton Truck and a folf lift to handle your organic fertilizers.

Hay Bay

No one said a Orgasm was cheap.

I owe you a half apology. I was thinking you were a Cheap Canadian Tree Hugger and Granola Nut. I just realized you aren't a Tree Hugger Granola Nut. But I will disagree on the Terminology of a Bridge Program. Spot treating a Orgasmic program with a synthetic herbicide is not a Bridge Program. It is cheating on your Granola Nuts that are paying for a Orgasm.

A Bridge Program is the blanket application of Both Organic and Synthetic products. Sewage Sludge as filler in a Synthetic Blend of fertilizer is in fact a Bridge Product. Bridge programs take advantage of both world and everyone should consider the advantages of Bridge Programs. If the Granola Nut had any common sense they might realize a Bridge program and it's results are a lot more acceptable to the general public and still environmentally friendly.
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  #13  
Old 07-18-2011, 01:08 PM
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HayBay HayBay is offline
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Quote:
It is cheating on your Granola Nuts that are paying for a Orgasm.
I like your description of bridge program better.


That Lawrence Stone quote was an excellent one.
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  #14  
Old 07-18-2011, 01:38 PM
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Ric Ric is offline
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Originally Posted by HayBay View Post
I like your description of bridge program better.


That Lawrence Stone quote was an excellent one.
Hay Bay

Here in the Bug Capital of US of America, Orgasmic programs are not working. But Some are trying to sell Orgasmic programs and then Cheating by using Synthetic programs. Natural Zone out of Sarasota sold the School boards on their Orgasmic Program Years ago. Only trouble is I have watched them apply Dursban all over the school yard Back in the day. They were targeting Mole Crickets in early September which should tell you they didn't have a clue in the first place. Early May is the best window of opportunity for Mole Crickets. Diaizion not Dursban would of been smart choice as a control for Mole Crickets back then.


Stone was Ban long before you joint LS. But if you like cynical humor the Fugal Agronomist was fun to read. kind of Like a Frank Fescue but much more vicious. Stone is now a 1st assist on a 27 hole Golf Course Resort in the Western Poconos about an hour and a half out of NYC. He just bought a house in the Poconos for cash and will be closing in two weeks. Yes I talk with him a few times each week.
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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

You can lead a Donkey to water but you can't make the Jackass Drink

"As Americans you have the right to be stupid." John Kerry

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne.
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  #15  
Old 07-18-2011, 02:13 PM
nik nik is offline
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Quote:
Even Chemical Yard care works 100% better when used in conjunction with proper Cultural practices.
That's the sad part, innit? That folks just don't know that to begin with.
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  #16  
Old 07-18-2011, 03:02 PM
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Ric Ric is offline
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Originally Posted by nik View Post
That's the sad part, innit? That folks just don't know that to begin with.
Nik

If you are going to quote me (or anyone) Please give credit where credit is due.
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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

You can lead a Donkey to water but you can't make the Jackass Drink

"As Americans you have the right to be stupid." John Kerry

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne.
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  #17  
Old 07-18-2011, 08:08 PM
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GrandMaster GrandMaster is offline
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Originally Posted by dgw View Post
im doing a design at a house that the owner gets organic lawn care


as i walked the property i noticed the lawn had weeds everywhere, and the easy ones (dandelions , clover, plantains)

she said she has been with them for 5 years


she wants organic because of dogs and kids, so when i was there i just stuck with what i was there to do and didnt try to sell a spray


but my question is do organic guys control weeds or was this just an unexperienced company?


i never got into organic so i honestly dont know
Ive had ok results with corn meal / soy bean meal for feed and spot spray with canning salt with vinager and dish soap. MAke it thick and use a paint brush to wipe only the leafs on weeds.
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  #18  
Old 07-18-2011, 08:30 PM
dgw dgw is offline
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Originally Posted by GrandMaster View Post
Ive had ok results with corn meal / soy bean meal for feed and spot spray with canning salt with vinager and dish soap. MAke it thick and use a paint brush to wipe only the leafs on weeds.

interesting

honestly though im not interested in trying any organic products

she seems happy with her organic guys, so ill just stick to doing her landscaping and keep doing regular fert and spray elsewhere


cultural practices yes, i promote it as much as possibly



but she had them for 5 years and the lawn was filled with weeds, so i was just curios if organic guys actually used something to target weeds

or if they just relied on building a healthy stand of turfgrass
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  #19  
Old 07-18-2011, 08:39 PM
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GrandMaster GrandMaster is offline
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Originally Posted by dgw View Post
interesting

honestly though im not interested in trying any organic products

she seems happy with her organic guys, so ill just stick to doing her landscaping and keep doing regular fert and spray elsewhere


cultural practices yes, i promote it as much as possibly



but she had them for 5 years and the lawn was filled with weeds, so i was just curios if organic guys actually used something to target weeds

or if they just relied on building a healthy stand of turfgrass
I hate it also but this customer makes it very well worth my time im talking like 4 times the reg rates
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  #20  
Old 07-18-2011, 10:00 PM
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Ric Ric is offline
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I hate it also but this customer makes it very well worth my time im talking like 4 times the reg rates
Interesting Fact about Tree Hugger I have experienced. Let them get Fleas or Tick etc inside the house. They really don't care what you use to get rid of their pests.
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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

You can lead a Donkey to water but you can't make the Jackass Drink

"As Americans you have the right to be stupid." John Kerry

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne.
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