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  #21  
Old 07-18-2011, 10:25 PM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Having previously worked for an organic (or organic based) company, a lot of the perception of how the lawn looks is up to the customer. There were lawns that I didn't like stopping the truck in front of, and customers would tell me the lawn looked better than ever. Most say they don't want a golf course (I'd like a dollar for how many times I've heard that) and some actually mean it. The hardcore organic people seem to hate clover the most, as the attraction of bees can lead to stings for their barefoot kids.

As far as weed control Green Guardian and Fiesta are the two main weed controls. I liked GG better, but as it was mentioned earlier, the organics rarely kill the weeds completely. The materials are too expensive to be used in their correct manner, IMO.
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  #22  
Old 07-19-2011, 12:48 AM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayBay View Post
That is the story you will get, right there

Organic but spot sprayed when needed. (people used to call this a bridge program)

Take away the 2,4-D and you are going to have a lot of weeds.
Unless you spend 10 times (at least) as much on irrigation, seeding, hand weeding and more hand weeding.
It would become a full time job to maintain just 1 property.

Chip Osborne Knows how to maintain an organic turf, at $100,000 - $300,000 a year in costs.
Chip Osborne helped put together an Organic Municipal Lawn Program in Colorado, it cost $300,000 a year to hand weed, goats and put out predator bugs, aerate, overseed.
They used to spend $15,000 a year on Glyphosate and 2,4-D


Thick Healthy Lawn that crowds out weeds? You mean Chemical Applicators don't want this kind of results too? Its not just an organic thing. Cultural practices are nothing new.

Check out Jeff Carlsons stuff, the Super at Marthas Vineyard Golf Club, $350,000 a year membership. He will tell you about organic. They are 80% organic. Dont be upset when you hear compost tea was a failure for him. They spent about $20,000 -$30,000 in labor a year to hand pick weeds

Cornells, Frank Rossi lost his funding for his organic program at Bethpage Golf Club. He was only maintaining practice tees organically and it was not working out very well.


My favorite is when there are no other organic products on the market at the time and the lawns look like failures, they start ranting about imprelis in the groud water, and everyones gonna die.

You basically have 3 years from the date of no Pesticide inputs to watch the turf turn into a weed/turf combination.

There are exceptions, but very very few. If you think you can maintain 50 customers lawns organically and there will be very little weeds to no weeds present. You will be wrong. Just imagine 500-1000 customers.

I remember when using 2,4-D in the past there was very little product required to maintain a yard.
With Alternative Products you are using gallons of active ingredient compared to ounces of it and the results are still no good.

Pray that 2,4-D is not banned in your neighbourhood
Wow. Interesting thread and an enlightening post. Sounds like your hands have been tied and you're none to happy. If so, I can understand why.

I have a license to SPRAY. I made a commitment to my customers to provide them with a green,virtually weed free lawn. To take away my ability to do what I have agreed to do for the customer in a cost effective, responsible manner would make me a little bitter. I'm afraid if I were put in the same situation as you, I would be watching my business die instead of grow....
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  #23  
Old 07-19-2011, 08:12 AM
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Ric Ric is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted putnam View Post
Wow. Interesting thread and an enlightening post. Sounds like your hands have been tied and you're none to happy. If so, I can understand why.

I have a license to SPRAY. I made a commitment to my customers to provide them with a green,virtually weed free lawn. To take away my ability to do what I have agreed to do for the customer in a cost effective, responsible manner would make me a little bitter. I'm afraid if I were put in the same situation as you, I would be watching my business die instead of grow....
Ted

Agriculture and Golf Courses have big time lobbying power and so we are the Easy target. The Tree Huggers are working hard to put you, me and everyone out of business. The more Chemical screw ups or contamination they find adds fuel to their fire. The more Yard Boy misapplying adds fuel to their fire.
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  #24  
Old 07-19-2011, 08:32 AM
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HayBay HayBay is online now
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Quote:
I'm afraid if I were put in the same situation as you, I would be watching my business die instead of grow....
That sums it up.

We offer more than lawn services which is keeping us alive, but lawn services used to be lucrative for us until the ban.

Now the major Lawn Franchises are worth ZERO nobody will buy.

Lawn Services use 1% of Canadas 2,4-D usage, but the Canadian Cancer Society and David Suzuki says we are saving thousands of lives by banning its use
There are studies that show Cell Phone use causes Cancer, but the Cancer Soceity ignores that one. No precautionary principle applies there.

Its great when you guys post pictures of perfect lawns. Its like a dream.

Last edited by HayBay; 07-19-2011 at 08:42 AM.
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  #25  
Old 07-19-2011, 09:03 AM
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Ric Ric is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayBay View Post
That sums it up.

We offer more than lawn services which is keeping us alive, but lawn services used to be lucrative for us until the ban.

Now the major Lawn Franchises are worth ZERO nobody will buy.

Lawn Services use 1% of Canadas 2,4-D usage, but the Canadian Cancer Society and David Suzuki says we are saving thousands of lives by banning its use
There are studies that show Cell Phone use causes Cancer, but the Cancer Soceity ignores that one. No precautionary principle applies there.

Its great when you guys post pictures of perfect lawns. Its like a dream.
Hay Bay

Maybe part of the reason we hate Canadians is the fact the Liberals are trying to turn us into Canada. This isn't the Political thread so I will stop here.
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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

You can lead a Donkey to water but you can't make the Jackass Drink

"As Americans you have the right to be stupid." John Kerry

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne.
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