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  #41  
Old 08-16-2011, 07:13 AM
OrganicsMaine OrganicsMaine is offline
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Originally Posted by nepatsfan View Post
And every kid deserves a trophy and there should be no honor roll because it makes the kids feel bad who don't get on it. No keeping score anymore everything is for fun.
Amen to that sarcasm!
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  #42  
Old 08-16-2011, 07:19 AM
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indplstim indplstim is offline
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Yea, good one
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  #43  
Old 08-16-2011, 04:40 PM
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JimLewis JimLewis is online now
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Originally Posted by indplstim View Post
Lol I wouldn't come back to this thread either, who wants to sit around and listen to a bunch of people pissing on his parade! I swear the posters on this site are some of the most negative people I've ever seen. I guess its too much for all u guys to say congrats , good luck and move on, Hell, throw in a good "I hope you arnt under-estimating you labor hours on such a big job, but I hope it all turns out well" No, u have to go on a two page diatribe about how in only five days, your end result MUST be shitty! Some people......
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What you (and probably the OP too) don't realize is we ARE helping this guy. Help doesn't always come in the form of "Oh, that sounds great. Best luck to you." In fact, that's not help at all. If you see a guy who is gleefully ignorant that he is about to step in a big pile of crap and twist their ankle in the same spot you just stepped in a few months ago do you just tell him, "Awesome, glad you're happy!" No!!! Not unless you're a total JackA$$. If you have a heart or soul, you WARN THE GUY. You, having gone down that same path many times before - WARN HIM. It's just the right thing to do.

Here we have a guy who ADMITS he hasn't ever done a job this big before. And then you have a bunch of us who HAVE done LOTS of jobs that big before giving him careful warnings. Guess what? Maybe it's time to listen up! Otherwise, why the heck would you come to a forum like this. Just to brag? You don't want to hear opinions from people who have done it before? You don't want to learn from the experience of others who gone where you're going? I'm sorry to tell you - but this forum is not just for the rest of us to cheer you on and never give any advice or opinions. If you thought that's what Lawnsite was, you're sorely mistaken. It's a place where you can share ideas, ask questions, and most of all learn from others who have done it before.

I agree we all should keep our comments positive. But that doesn't mean we just totally ignore it when we see a fellow member walking into danger. I didn't see anyone in this thread being rude or extremely negative. It's our duty to help other contractors here on Lawnsite see what maybe they aren't seeing. Since we have a little more clarity from many years of experience. That's how we raise the standard of our industry. If you're not on board with that concept, and just want some Namby-Pamby-Phoney-Baloney-Plastic-Banana-Good-Time-Rock-and-Rollers, then maybe this just isn't the place for you guys. Because here on Lawnsite, we call it like we see it. We're honest. Sometimes that comes off as being brutally honest. But it's better than not saying anything and letting you step in a pile of crap.
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Last edited by JimLewis; 08-16-2011 at 04:46 PM.
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  #44  
Old 08-16-2011, 04:47 PM
OrganicsMaine OrganicsMaine is offline
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Yes!!!!
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  #45  
Old 08-16-2011, 04:48 PM
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tadpole tadpole is offline
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Originally Posted by JimLewis View Post
What you (and probably the OP too) don't realize is we ARE helping this guy. Help doesn't always come in the form of "Oh, that sounds great. Best luck to you." In fact, that's not help at all. If you see a guy who is gleefully ignorant that he is about to step in a big pile of crap and twist their ankle in the same spot you just stepped in a few months ago do you just tell him, "Awesome, glad you're happy!" No!!! Not unless you're a total JackA$$. If you have a heart or soul, you WARN THE GUY. You, having gone down that same path many times before - WARN HIM. It's just the right thing to do.

Here we have a guy who ADMITS he hasn't ever done a job this big before. And then you have a bunch of us who HAVE done LOTS of jobs that big before giving him careful warnings. Guess what? Maybe it's time to listen up! Otherwise, why the heck would you come to a forum like this. Just to brag? You don't want to hear opinions from people who have done it before? You don't want to learn from the experience of others who gone where you're going? I'm sorry to tell you - but this forum is not just for the rest of us to cheer you on and never give any advise or opinions. If you thought that's what Lawnsite was, you're sorely mistaken. It's a place where you can share ideas, ask questions, and most of all learn from others who have done it before.

I agree we all should keep our comments positive. But that doesn't mean we just totally ignore it when we see a fellow member walking into danger. I didn't see anyone in this thread being rude or extremely negative. It's our duty to help other contractors here on Lawnsite see what maybe they aren't seeing. Since we have a little more clarity from many years of experience. That's how we raise the standard of our industry. If you're not on board with that concept, and just want some Namby-Pamby-Phoney-Baloney-Plastic-Banana-Good-Time-Rock-and-Rollers, then maybe this just isn't the place for you guys. Because here on Lawnsite, we call it like we see it. We're honest. Sometimes that comes off as being brutally honest. But it's better than not saying anything and letting you step in a pile of crap.

BRAVO!
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  #46  
Old 08-16-2011, 05:08 PM
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indplstim indplstim is offline
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Calling the op ignorant, implying his standards must be crap in order to meet his own time expectations isn't being negative? Telling me to find another forum isn't negative? Have you seen the jobsite in question? Have u seen how well this man and his crew work? Honesty is great and this forum is awesome with the info avaliable, in my time here(3 years reading, 1 year posting) I have noticed a lot of negativity and infighting on this board. Go re-read this thread, does it sound negative to you? Your post especially! Sure from the outside looking in, it may appear that all he listed seems unreasonable in a 5 day work week. Why jump down the guys ass about it, I'd abandon the tread too. Its not helping, if no one asks for your help!
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  #47  
Old 08-16-2011, 05:10 PM
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indplstim indplstim is offline
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Too much more of this and the mods will be "helping" this thread!
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Last edited by indplstim; 08-16-2011 at 05:17 PM.
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  #48  
Old 08-16-2011, 05:22 PM
nepatsfan nepatsfan is offline
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Originally Posted by indplstim View Post
Calling the op ignorant, implying his standards must be crap in order to meet his own time expectations isn't being negative? Telling me to find another forum isn't negative? Have you seen the jobsite in question? Have u seen how well this man and his crew work? Honesty is great and this forum is awesome with the info avaliable, in my time here(3 years reading, 1 year posting) I have noticed a lot of negativity and infighting on this board. Go re-read this thread, does it sound negative to you? Your post especially! Sure from the outside looking in, it may appear that all he listed seems unreasonable in a 5 day work week. Why jump down the guys ass about it, I'd abandon the tread too. Its not helping, if no one asks for your help!
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Good luck to him but his timeline is impossible......Thats all.
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  #49  
Old 08-16-2011, 06:01 PM
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JimLewis JimLewis is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indplstim View Post
Calling the op ignorant
Well, first of all, I don't think I called him ignorant. If I did, go back and show me where I did. Because I can't find it.

Although I would concur with that assessment. According to the dictionary, the word 'Ignorant' means, "1. Lacking education or knowledge. 2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge 3. Unaware or Uninformed." It's not like you're calling someone a bad name. You're just saying the person isn't that knowledgeable about a certain subject. I would say that just for the fact that the OP said he'd never landed a job like this before that - by definition - means he's a little ignorant in terms of doing jobs this big.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indplstim View Post
, implying his standards must be crap in order to meet his own time expectations isn't being negative?
Again, I think you're mis-characterizing what I said a little. But I didn't say that. He said he landed this huge job on a $1.5Mil. property (which we have to assume is a pretty big place) and listed a LOT of different projects he was going to do on said property and then mentioned he thought it would be done in a week. So either this is a REALLY TINY $1.5Mil property or he is just 10x faster than the rest of us are. Because those estimates don't add up at all in the real world. Anyone who's done jobs like this would tell you - and a bunch of us HAVE told him - that it is going to take way longer than that. There are just way too many things going on. Unless it's a 3-sprinkler-head sprinkler system and a 50 sq. ft. flagstone pathway and a 100 sq. ft. sod lawn, and (15) 1 gal. plants, and a tiny little rock wall and on and on and on..... I'm sorry. There's just no way that's going to happen. Even if you're hella fast and taking every short cut possible you still can't fully landscape and hardscape and irrigate a property like that in 5 days. Just doesn't happen. That's all any of us are saying.


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Telling me to find another forum isn't negative?
No. I said if you're expecting this place to be all bubbles and flowers and nice happy comments where nobody ever gives you any real honest advice - than you should probably go elsewhere. Because this forum will NEVER BE LIKE THAT. Hate to break it to ya.

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Originally Posted by indplstim View Post
Have you seen the jobsite in question?
Nope. But he gave a pretty decent description. $1.5 Mil property, just North of Atlanta, GA. According to Zillow, homes in that area that are in the $1.5 Mil. price range are all around 44,000 sq. ft. or 1 acre. So until the OP clarifies how big of a property he's referring to exactly, the rest of us can only conclude it's about the same size as most of the rest of the $1.5Mil homes in that area. I can't imagine it's a huge $1.5 Mil home on a 5000 sq. ft. lot. That seems very unlikely. But even if that was true, then I guess this job isn't anything to really be very excited about then because then it would be a super small project.

He did say that there would be a 200'x4' retaining wall. So that tells me right there it's a pretty decent size property. He also said 400 plants. So again, that can't be a small lot. Talked about a lot of sq. footage in hardscape. So yah, I think we got the idea how big of a property this is. But since he's not been responding to anyone's questions then we can't really know for sure. All we can go off is his initial postings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indplstim View Post
Have u seen how well this man and his crew work?
No. But it doesn't matter, really. I have crews that are some of the better install crews in my state. Most of them been with me a good 7-8 years now and are about as fast and good quality as you can get. And there's no way even my experienced guys could ever touch a job that big in just 5 days. Even if we took short cuts. It just isn't possible. No matter how good you are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indplstim View Post
Honesty is great and this forum is awesome with the info avaliable, in my time here(3 years reading, 1 year posting) I have noticed a lot of negativity and infighting on this board. Go re-read this thread, does it sound negative to you? Your post especially!
I think some of you guys are just a little too sensitive and don't like it when people tell you the cold hard truth. You'd rather people be all nice and bubbly and always saying nice positive things to you all the time than tell you the cold hard truth.

I do understand what you're saying, though - in general. You might be surprised to hear that. That's one of the reasons I don't post a lot of jobs on Lawnsite anymore. We do a lot of nice work but I don't post our jobs as much here anymore because I don't always care to listen to how some guy in another state half way across the country would have used a different paver or done the water feature a little differently or would have used a different kind of step. That gets old, I agree. Sometimes you just want people to say nice things and not get any criticism at all - even if it is meant as constructive criticism. I get that.

But the reality is that every time I've posted something on Lawnsite and didn't always like all the replies I got, I almost always learned something. And on many many occasions, the comments I got on a project that I thought turned out amazing really made me think hard about how I might do it differently next time. And so I learned something. And my work improved! As difficult as it was to hear, the criticism helped! That's the thing you gotta learn about Lawnsite. Most people are trying to help. Not everyone. There are some trolls here who just like to pick apart people's work but never post any of their own work. And, honestly, those guys are the ones who keep me from posting more often. But most of the rest of the people who post comments really aren't intending to be negative. They are trying to help you see that there are other, better, ways of doing it. Or help you see that you're really underestimating yourself. Or help you see that you're in over your head. And it's never fun to hear that but that doesn't mean it's not true. You have to take a step back sometimes and realize that sometimes these are guys who have done what you're just starting to do. And maybe they've done it hundreds of times. And maybe you ought to listen up!

Quote:
Originally Posted by indplstim View Post
Sure from the outside looking in, it may appear that all he listed seems unreasonable in a 5 day work week. Why jump down the guys ass about it, I'd abandon the tread too.
I don't think anyone jumped down his a$$ about it. We were just laying out the cold hard truth. It would be like someone going into the lawn care forum and saying, "Yes! Just landed my biggest mowing account ever! It's 3 acres and they want me to start right away. I figure it will take me about 15 minutes a week on my ZTR to mow it all down. I'm gonna make bank on this one!" ............ No.....no....no. You're not. What the heck are you thinking? I don't care what kind of mower you have. That is totally unreasonable and you need to wake up to reality, kid!

Sometimes you gotta give someone a cold hard wake up call when they are posting stuff like that. That's all we did here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indplstim View Post
Its not helping, if no one asks for your help!
And I'll have to call you out on that one too. It is helping if the person giving it out has specific experience doing exactly what you're talking about doing and offering some suggestions as to how you might be a little off track. You can chose to ignore that help. You can act like a baby and say, "I wasn't asking for your help! Go away!!!" But it's still help. It's just a matter of whether you choose to accept it or remain ignorant. You can do the latter and learn the hard way. That's how I learned most things I know. But I'll tell you from experience, it's not the best way to learn. Much better to learn from others who have done it than to just beat your head against the wall thinking you know everything. That's why these days if I run into a paver challenge that I haven't had before or a new lighting problem or an irrigation problem - I go to those forums and ask the pros who have had some serious experience. I do that first. Because it's a whole lot easier learning that way than how I used to learn for the first 5-10 years of my business.
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landscape design Portland Oregon
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  #50  
Old 08-16-2011, 06:09 PM
SoCalLandscapeMgmt SoCalLandscapeMgmt is online now
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We do a lot of nice work but I don't post our jobs as much here anymore because I don't always care to listen to how some guy in another state half way across the country would have used a different paver or done the water feature a little differently or would have used a different kind of step.
Awww...c'mon.... It's just Andrew bein Andrew!

But you're dead on with all of your posts on this thread. Not to be mean but guys like the OP in this thread are one of the biggest problem that we face in this industry. They deflate the value of the work because they simply lack the experience to price and manage the job correctly!
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