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  #11  
Old 08-10-2011, 07:30 AM
Richie@ Richie@ is offline
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Location: Virginia Beach , Va
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLI Electric View Post
Gotta love Code. Richie, thanks for posting this and the links. That is awesome. In my state we are still on the 2005 Code so I don't know if any of the exceptions have come into being. I will be rereading this about a dozen times to make sure the wording is absorbed. It is real funny how all this ends up with the interpretation of the Authority Having Jurisdiction. They are the same one that told me it IS OK to have an OUTDOOR ONLY transformer used inside. I argued with the lighting store and brought it to the state and they said the store was right. "If it is ok for outdoor, it is ok for indoor." They supply a 150 watt transformer from a company that begins with K all the time for track lighting too. Fortunately, I don't recommend that lighting store to my clients.
Richie, am I correct in my interpretation that the exception to 411.4(B) has been shot down?
Bob,

What we have here in Va is called Virginia state wide code that ( believe it or not ) allows us to do some things differently than the NEC

Will look at that 411.4 b
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  #12  
Old 08-10-2011, 07:38 AM
Richie@ Richie@ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RLI Electric View Post
Gotta love Code. Richie, thanks for posting this and the links. That is awesome. In my state we are still on the 2005 Code so I don't know if any of the exceptions have come into being. I will be rereading this about a dozen times to make sure the wording is absorbed. It is real funny how all this ends up with the interpretation of the Authority Having Jurisdiction. They are the same one that told me it IS OK to have an OUTDOOR ONLY transformer used inside. I argued with the lighting store and brought it to the state and they said the store was right. "If it is ok for outdoor, it is ok for indoor." They supply a 150 watt transformer from a company that begins with K all the time for track lighting too. Fortunately, I don't recommend that lighting store to my clients.
Richie, am I correct in my interpretation that the exception to 411.4(B) has been shot down?
Bob ,

Another good one to read.

http://www.iaei.org/magazine/2004/11...volts-or-less/
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  #13  
Old 08-10-2011, 08:02 AM
Richie@ Richie@ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INTEGRA Works Lighting View Post
This is an application hurdle David. For the rest of the water feature I will be using standard underwater rated fixtures, but for the top portion where the water feature wraps around the hot tub I want to use pool and spa rated to be extra safe / cautious. The water feature water will be flowing all around the perimeter of the hot tub and as such it is not 3m or more away from the "human water". As such standard pond fixtures will not suffice. There is a bridge from the patio to the tub, but there is also a chance that people can and will come in limited contact with the waterfeature water. Better safe than sorry.
James,

This site may help you find what your looking for , also list many Lighting suppliers.

http://www.swimmingpoolsetc.com/pool-fiber-optics.htm
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  #14  
Old 08-10-2011, 11:52 AM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is online now
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Well I have learned a few things today. Here in Canada any water feature that is over 1.5m in dimension must be considered as habitable and thus you must use both Pool & Spa transformers and fixtures. It is doable but now to find fixture options.

The Hunza Pool Lite quote came in at an insane at an unbelievably high NET cost and I am not sure I can sell it as I need 12 units.

I do not think that fiberoptics are viable for this project give the scale, depth and volume of water that I am trying to illuminate (600 Gallons per minute)

So back to the original question: Do you know of any 12 volt, pool & spa rated fixtures? I am open to any ideas on this one.

Thanks.
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  #15  
Old 08-10-2011, 12:18 PM
Richie@ Richie@ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INTEGRA Works Lighting View Post
Well I have learned a few things today. Here in Canada any water feature that is over 1.5m in dimension must be considered as habitable and thus you must use both Pool & Spa transformers and fixtures. It is doable but now to find fixture options.

The Hunza Pool Lite quote came in at an insane at an unbelievably high NET cost and I am not sure I can sell it as I need 12 units.

I do not think that fiberoptics are viable for this project give the scale, depth and volume of water that I am trying to illuminate (600 Gallons per minute)

So back to the original question: Do you know of any 12 volt, pool & spa rated fixtures? I am open to any ideas on this one.

Thanks.

Here are some links that might help.

http://www.swimmingpoolsetc.com/pool-fiber-optics.htm

http://www.landlights.net/Underwater-Fixtures_c_11.html

http://www.bronzelite.com/underwater/5000rgs.html

http://www.inyopools.com/lights_inground.aspx

The Savi Note LED lights are pretty nice from inyopools.
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  #16  
Old 08-10-2011, 01:18 PM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is online now
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Thanks for those links Richie... they led me to two options that may well just work out fine. I appreciate the help and owe you a couple of libations at the very least.

Regards.
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James Solecki
INTEGRA ~ Bespoke Lighting Systems ®
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www.integralighting.com

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  #17  
Old 08-10-2011, 01:24 PM
Richie@ Richie@ is offline
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Originally Posted by Richie@ View Post

Bob,

I can top that one.

NEC article 680.25 a. b. clearly says feeders for Pool sub Panels or Control Panels must be in conduit an 4 Insulated conductors from main service to Sub Panel.

Well some 70 miles west from here the Inspectors aloud 4 conductor AL SER cable as the service to a Pool sub Panel which was Installed by another electrician in which we will not connect to the Pool sub Panel , if someone else wants to connect it have at it but I won't.

Richie
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  #18  
Old 08-10-2011, 01:27 PM
Richie@ Richie@ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INTEGRA Works Lighting View Post
Thanks for those links Richie... they led me to two options that may well just work out fine. I appreciate the help and owe you a couple of libations at the very least.

Regards.
James,

I can help with NEC code Issues related to Pools-Spas-Saunas-Fountains, we go through it all the time with Inspectors.
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  #19  
Old 08-10-2011, 01:31 PM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is online now
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Thanks... apparently there are some significant differences between the NEC and the CEC.

Question, using a 12Volt P&S rated fixture, using SJOW lead wire and SJOW branch circuit wire, would it be acceptable to make inline connections using a CSA device like the ACE connector or must all connections be made inside a "waterproof" junction box? And can that junction box, if necessary be submerged or must it be out of the water feature water?

Thanks
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James Solecki
INTEGRA ~ Bespoke Lighting Systems ®
JSLDesign Inc.


www.integralighting.com

www.facebook.com/INTEGRA.Lighting

Affiliations: IESNA, IALD, IDA, AOLP, LO, MBA
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  #20  
Old 08-10-2011, 01:42 PM
Richie@ Richie@ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by INTEGRA Works Lighting View Post
Thanks... apparently there are some significant differences between the NEC and the CEC.

Question, using a 12Volt P&S rated fixture, using SJOW lead wire and SJOW branch circuit wire, would it be acceptable to make inline connections using a CSA device like the ACE connector or must all connections be made inside a "waterproof" junction box? And can that junction box, if necessary be submerged or must it be out of the water feature water?

Thanks
Connections can be made within an approved brass - threaded entry box under water an filled with approved epoxy compound , wire nut your connections an rubber tape it before you mix an poor in the epoxy,and of course leave the cord to the fixture long enough to remove for serving the fixture.
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