Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 08-26-2011, 06:11 PM
ChiTownAmateur ChiTownAmateur is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 386
Organic is a term with very clear and defined limits, even though it has been sort of hijacked as a buzzword these days to mean many other things.

Safe however is a relative term and is used generally to mean "not thought to harm life forms". However as everyone well knows, what was once considered "safe" is often later determined to be far from it, such as asbestos, DDT or Diaznon.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-26-2011, 08:17 PM
phasthound's Avatar
phasthound phasthound is online now
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mt. Laurel, NJ
Posts: 4,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiTownAmateur View Post
Organic is a term with very clear and defined limits, even though it has been sort of hijacked as a buzzword these days to mean many other things.

Safe however is a relative term and is used generally to mean "not thought to harm life forms". However as everyone well knows, what was once considered "safe" is often later determined to be far from it, such as asbestos, DDT or Diaznon.
Chi,

There are many different interpretations of the term organic, it's not really that clear and defined.

As you stated, safe is a relative term. These sites show vastly different viewpoints on the safety of pesticides.

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/
http://www.pestfacts.org/
__________________
Barry Draycott

The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-26-2011, 10:26 PM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Howard County MD
Posts: 4,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoguy View Post
Hey Bill. Is this because of the misuse of the word safe?
no the thinking of the label police, I'm sorry the department of Ag is that implying "safe" on the label means that other manufacturers are not "safe" is what I have been told

it seems like a circular argument to me
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-27-2011, 07:59 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICT Bill View Post
no the thinking of the label police, I'm sorry the department of Ag is that implying "safe" on the label means that other manufacturers are not "safe" is what I have been told

it seems like a circular argument to me
We are the intelligent lawncare alternative...
The Ag Dept. thinks everyone else's stupidity is implied...

Stupid B'crats...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-01-2011, 06:23 AM
humble1's Avatar
humble1 humble1 is offline
LawnSite Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: MA
Posts: 2,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecoguy View Post
Is the compost you use organic? My guess is no. What about the natural fertilizers/meals -they GMO free? Probably not. How about Milogranite? Totally natural? Nope.

My guess is those who call themselves organic really mean safe. Immediately bare foot safe for people, places, things - even microbes. I've also used the word organic but I think safe is a much more helpful word. People automatically know what you mean, and unless your lying, there's very little grey area. Eventually safe or - give it a few hours safe, isn't safe. It's either safe right now or it isn't. Pretty black and white. Organic can be too...political plus it can actually be grey. How many times have you seen Organic on a product that isn't safe? Talk about confusing. Same goes with natural and eco. Safe lawns. Paul Tukey and Co. had it right with that one. Plus, it's a lot easier to decide what to use in your program.

Agree?
Uranium is organic and asbestos is all natural.
Posted via Mobile Device
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-01-2011, 08:27 AM
ICT Bill ICT Bill is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Howard County MD
Posts: 4,120
Quote:
Originally Posted by humble1 View Post
Uranium is organic and asbestos is all natural.
Posted via Mobile Device
There are no guidelines for "organic" in landscaping, there is no government body like the USDA or EPA that regulate which ingredients are acceptable or not. We base our "organic" ingredients on the EPA standard of "minimum risk pesticides", these are typically plant based products like cedarwood oil, garlic, castor oil, etc. and the USDA list of organic ingredients use in organic farming

for now that is the best you can do
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-02-2011, 12:28 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,827
I still blieve that common sense has more validity that gov't regs anyways... even organic produced is loaded with pesticides because they grow it next to aerial sprayed fields... sometimes right in the middle of these fields, but by the 'letter ofthe law', they're organic...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 09-13-2011, 01:30 PM
bradtf bradtf is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
I still blieve that common sense has more validity that gov't regs anyways... even organic produced is loaded with pesticides because they grow it next to aerial sprayed fields... sometimes right in the middle of these fields, but by the 'letter ofthe law', they're organic...
Up here, to be certified organic, all the neighboring properties have to sign agreements to be organic and not spray as well. My buddy has a 5 acres surrounded by a certified organic farm that grows feed/hay… he was asked to sign off saying he wouldn’t spray his fields so that the neighbors farm could get organic status.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-14-2011, 03:27 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,827
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradtf View Post
Up here, to be certified organic, all the neighboring properties have to sign agreements to be organic and not spray as well. My buddy has a 5 acres surrounded by a certified organic farm that grows feed/hay… he was asked to sign off saying he wouldn’t spray his fields so that the neighbors farm could get organic status.
Not a big fan of 'certification' by bureaucrats, but that is not a bad policy... I always relate the story of 5A. of 'organic' carrots surrounded by 500A. of potatoes... and how those carrots were the most contaminted carrots in the store, because doing anything other than subjecting them to what potatoes goes through is an improvement...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 09-15-2011, 05:44 PM
ChiTownAmateur ChiTownAmateur is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 386
My 2c again is that organic simply means "from life" and is not a term that should be used in trying to describe what I think is better termed "natural"

Over the eons that people have grown crops and looking back people view what they did as "natural", because they didn't have "unnaturally occuring substances" to use such as pesticides, herbicides, synthetic ferts etc.

When ICT bill makes compost tea, he is farming a naturally occuring organism and multiplying it, then amending it into soil which is a "natural" farming method that harkens back to the old days...it's something that could and was probably done for centuries by some. Whether they used compost...or compost tea is not really the point. The fact that is occurs NATURALLY and uses ORGANIC material...live organisms.

In all honesty what is usually meant is simply that it is grown using the old techniques as far as everything EXCEPT the machinery used. The machinery simply moves or modifies the turf, soil or other elements, it does not change them or alter them.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.com™ - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:19 PM.

Page generated in 0.11594 seconds with 7 queries