Safe not Organic

[ChiTownAmateur]

Organic is a term with very clear and defined limits, even though it has been sort of hijacked as a buzzword these days to mean many other things.

Safe however is a relative term and is used generally to mean "not thought to harm life forms". However as everyone well knows, what was once considered "safe" is often later determined to be far from it, such as asbestos, DDT or Diaznon.

[phasthound]

Originally Posted by ChiTownAmateur

Organic is a term with very clear and defined limits, even though it has been sort of hijacked as a buzzword these days to mean many other things.

Safe however is a relative term and is used generally to mean "not thought to harm life forms". However as everyone well knows, what was once considered "safe" is often later determined to be far from it, such as asbestos, DDT or Diaznon.

Chi,

There are many different interpretations of the term organic, it's not really that clear and defined.

As you stated, safe is a relative term. These sites show vastly different viewpoints on the safety of pesticides.

http://www.beyondpesticides.org/
http://www.pestfacts.org/

[ICT Bill]

Originally Posted by ecoguy

Hey Bill. Is this because of the misuse of the word safe?

no the thinking of the label police, I'm sorry the department of Ag is that implying "safe" on the label means that other manufacturers are not "safe" is what I have been told

it seems like a circular argument to me

[Smallaxe]

Originally Posted by ICT Bill

no the thinking of the label police, I'm sorry the department of Ag is that implying "safe" on the label means that other manufacturers are not "safe" is what I have been told

it seems like a circular argument to me

We are the intelligent lawncare alternative...
The Ag Dept. thinks everyone else's stupidity is implied...

Stupid B'crats...

[humble1]

Originally Posted by ecoguy

Is the compost you use organic? My guess is no. What about the natural fertilizers/meals -they GMO free? Probably not. How about Milogranite? Totally natural? Nope.

My guess is those who call themselves organic really mean safe. Immediately bare foot safe for people, places, things - even microbes. I've also used the word organic but I think safe is a much more helpful word. People automatically know what you mean, and unless your lying, there's very little grey area. Eventually safe or - give it a few hours safe, isn't safe. It's either safe right now or it isn't. Pretty black and white. Organic can be too...political plus it can actually be grey. How many times have you seen Organic on a product that isn't safe? Talk about confusing. Same goes with natural and eco. Safe lawns. Paul Tukey and Co. had it right with that one. Plus, it's a lot easier to decide what to use in your program.

Agree?

Uranium is organic and asbestos is all natural.
Posted via Mobile Device

[ICT Bill]

Originally Posted by humble1

Uranium is organic and asbestos is all natural.
Posted via Mobile Device

There are no guidelines for "organic" in landscaping, there is no government body like the USDA or EPA that regulate which ingredients are acceptable or not. We base our "organic" ingredients on the EPA standard of "minimum risk pesticides", these are typically plant based products like cedarwood oil, garlic, castor oil, etc. and the USDA list of organic ingredients use in organic farming

for now that is the best you can do

[Smallaxe]

I still blieve that common sense has more validity that gov't regs anyways... even organic produced is loaded with pesticides because they grow it next to aerial sprayed fields... sometimes right in the middle of these fields, but by the 'letter ofthe law', they're organic...

[bradtf]

Originally Posted by Smallaxe

I still blieve that common sense has more validity that gov't regs anyways... even organic produced is loaded with pesticides because they grow it next to aerial sprayed fields... sometimes right in the middle of these fields, but by the 'letter ofthe law', they're organic...

Up here, to be certified organic, all the neighboring properties have to sign agreements to be organic and not spray as well. My buddy has a 5 acres surrounded by a certified organic farm that grows feed/hay… he was asked to sign off saying he wouldn’t spray his fields so that the neighbors farm could get organic status.

[Smallaxe]

Originally Posted by bradtf

Up here, to be certified organic, all the neighboring properties have to sign agreements to be organic and not spray as well. My buddy has a 5 acres surrounded by a certified organic farm that grows feed/hay… he was asked to sign off saying he wouldn’t spray his fields so that the neighbors farm could get organic status.

Not a big fan of 'certification' by bureaucrats, but that is not a bad policy... I always relate the story of 5A. of 'organic' carrots surrounded by 500A. of potatoes... and how those carrots were the most contaminted carrots in the store, because doing anything other than subjecting them to what potatoes goes through is an improvement...

[ChiTownAmateur]

My 2c again is that organic simply means "from life" and is not a term that should be used in trying to describe what I think is better termed "natural"

Over the eons that people have grown crops and looking back people view what they did as "natural", because they didn't have "unnaturally occuring substances" to use such as pesticides, herbicides, synthetic ferts etc.

When ICT bill makes compost tea, he is farming a naturally occuring organism and multiplying it, then amending it into soil which is a "natural" farming method that harkens back to the old days...it's something that could and was probably done for centuries by some. Whether they used compost...or compost tea is not really the point. The fact that is occurs NATURALLY and uses ORGANIC material...live organisms.

In all honesty what is usually meant is simply that it is grown using the old techniques as far as everything EXCEPT the machinery used. The machinery simply moves or modifies the turf, soil or other elements, it does not change them or alter them.