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  #1  
Old 08-29-2011, 06:18 PM
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americanlawn americanlawn is offline
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granular late fall fert - need advice

44-0-0 25% XCU ?

25-0-0 (35% XCU + 65% Aluminum sulfate) ?

46-0-0 granular urea (a) ?

46-0-0 prilled urea (b) ?

(a) (b) what't's the difference?

I realize that fall is the best time to "load up" with heavy rates of N in the upper Midwest, and we need to order more fert now, so I'd like opinions from users.

Is the A sulfate truly beneficial in late fall (winterizer), or is urea the best bang for the buck?

I kinda need an answer within 3 days. Thanks very much in advance.
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  #2  
Old 08-29-2011, 08:05 PM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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None of the above.
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  #3  
Old 08-29-2011, 08:52 PM
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Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
None of the above.
Slow Dog

I believe that is his grub control preventative.
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Old 08-29-2011, 10:24 PM
pieperlc pieperlc is offline
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Nothing will be cheaper than the urea, however ammonium sulfate is a more effective way to deliver nitrogen. I'm leaning towards going to a ammonium sulfate fert this fall. Why put down xcu in late october/november?

Quote:
Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
44-0-0 25% XCU ?

25-0-0 (35% XCU + 65% Aluminum sulfate) ?

46-0-0 granular urea (a) ?

46-0-0 prilled urea (b) ?

(a) (b) what't's the difference?

I realize that fall is the best time to "load up" with heavy rates of N in the upper Midwest, and we need to order more fert now, so I'd like opinions from users.

Is the A sulfate truly beneficial in late fall (winterizer), or is urea the best bang for the buck?

I kinda need an answer within 3 days. Thanks very much in advance.
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  #5  
Old 08-29-2011, 11:32 PM
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Ric Ric is offline
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Originally Posted by pieperlc View Post
Nothing will be cheaper than the urea, however ammonium sulfate is a more effective way to deliver nitrogen. I'm leaning towards going to a ammonium sulfate fert this fall. Why put down xcu in late october/november?
pieperlc

Is that the Recommendation of the U of Iowa??? Larry always used the U of I programs. I am surprised after 30 years in the business he has to asking here what to use. I am even more surprised he suggest using slow release nitrogen.

BTW I am not a Cool season Guy so while I feel I know the answer. I will not respond because I am not experienced in that area.


Larry

Here is a Pesticide 101 thread about Nitrogen that might give you some of the training you obviously need from your question. I am sorry but the thread was never finished or were the other element thread ever started. But that is a long story that can't be told right now. BTW I purposely make error in that thread to see who is following it and will correct those error. Tims turf does a nice job here also.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=44636



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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

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"As Americans you have the right to be stupid." John Kerry

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne.
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  #6  
Old 08-30-2011, 10:52 AM
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RigglePLC RigglePLC is offline
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I like the 44-0-0 with XCU. All urea would tend to leach out and end up in the ground water and be subject to run off. I am assuming your soil tests show no need for potassium. If your soils have a need for potassium, why not include it?
Perhaps you are thinking that potassium would not show any response, or that it would be leached out before it could be taken up.
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Old 08-30-2011, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by RigglePLC View Post
I like the 44-0-0 with XCU. All urea would tend to leach out and end up in the ground water and be subject to run off. I am assuming your soil tests show no need for potassium. If your soils have a need for potassium, why not include it?
Perhaps you are thinking that potassium would not show any response, or that it would be leached out before it could be taken up.
Riggle

I am surprised at you using a slow release. In my sandy soil leaching is a real problem but are you NOT ON HARD PAN???? Urea needs Microbial activity to be available to the Plant. Cold of Frozen ground is not going to active. But with spring warm up come the Microbes and the Huge Green Up push by Urea. I am not saying Urea is the best. But I am saying Urea is the Cheapest and in this case I believe Cheap is a watch word.

BTW My point being there are more factors in choosing a product than the simple minded question "what do I use".
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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

You can lead a Donkey to water but you can't make the Jackass Drink

"As Americans you have the right to be stupid." John Kerry

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne.
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  #8  
Old 08-30-2011, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
44-0-0 25% XCU ?

25-0-0 (35% XCU + 65% Aluminum sulfate) ?

46-0-0 granular urea (a) ?

46-0-0 prilled urea (b) ?

(a) (b) what't's the difference?


I realize that fall is the best time to "load up" with heavy rates of N in the upper Midwest, and we need to order more fert now, so I'd like opinions from users.

Is the A sulfate truly beneficial in late fall (winterizer), or is urea the best bang for the buck?

I kinda need an answer within 3 days. Thanks very much in advance.

Larry

I got a call today about the Bold Print above. The LCO was asking what was the differences. When I explained that the question wasn't even ask correctly, he Immediately knew the answer. Your Question should have read What is the Difference in Spreadable and soluble or spray-able Urea??

Granules are in fact Prill, or the same thing in the case of 46-0-0 Urea. The Granules or prill size of Spread-able Urea are larger so they weight more and can be thrown by a broad cast wheel of a Rotary spreader. Soluble or Spray-able Urea has much smaller Prill or Granule size almost powder like so it dissolves quicker. It is possible to Spray Spreadable Granules/prill But it takes longer to melt the Granules. It is possible to spread Spray-able Urea but look out for stripping because the Granules are not heavy enough to spread outward.

I explained that the question wasn't even ask correctly,

Larry this brings up an other point. When you first came to Lawnsite you were Mr Answer Man. True not always the correct answer but you pounded your chest and told everyone how big your business was and how you had Worked for the Duke Bros Etc so you were the 30 year Go To man.

Lately You have been asking questions any newbie on the Block should Know. So my question is are you trying act Dumb or Do you need to see a doctor about some kind of Memory Loss possibly cause by Pesticide poisoning like Dursban Twitch????



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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

You can lead a Donkey to water but you can't make the Jackass Drink

"As Americans you have the right to be stupid." John Kerry

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne.
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  #9  
Old 08-30-2011, 09:05 PM
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countryclublawnllc countryclublawnllc is offline
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It really depends on whether the feeding is late fall, or dormant (after the last mowing). After the point of turf dormancy the energy will all be directed to root growth and shoot growth at that time is minimal to non-existent. The 25-0-0 would be a great choice in my opinion as it gives a nice shot of (NH4)2 SO4 that would be readily available at soil temps below the range that microbial activity would still be active to break down urea. Approximately 55 degrees and less. Retired Soils expert, Dr. Paul Rieke of Michigan State University always recommended leaving a percentage of slow release in the mix that would be taken up during a warm spell in the late fall or be available for early spring greenup.


John
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  #10  
Old 08-31-2011, 10:42 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryclublawnllc View Post
It really depends on whether the feeding is late fall, or dormant (after the last mowing). After the point of turf dormancy the energy will all be directed to root growth and shoot growth at that time is minimal to non-existent. The 25-0-0 would be a great choice in my opinion as it gives a nice shot of (NH4)2 SO4 that would be readily available at soil temps below the range that microbial activity would still be active to break down urea. Approximately 55 degrees and less. Retired Soils expert, Dr. Paul Rieke of Michigan State University always recommended leaving a percentage of slow release in the mix that would be taken up during a warm spell in the late fall or be available for early spring greenup.


John
Does the plant require photosynthesis in the fall to utilize any NPK that is in the soil?
Or can it still utilize NPK w/out photosynethesizing it?
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