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  #21  
Old 08-31-2011, 07:48 PM
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fl-landscapes fl-landscapes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
Hey - you were the only one to suggest that "nutrients" provided grub control. I figured you were kidding -- then I realized you were trying to throw a fast ball like I did, except your "fastball"l was slower than mine.....gotcha ya.
Think you meant curveball? Or was another intentional curveball?
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  #22  
Old 08-31-2011, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by fl-landscapes View Post
Think you meant curveball? Or was another intentional curveball?
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Larry

Mixes words Like Fast Ball instead of Curve Ball is in fact signs of Dursban Twitch. I had a Cuban fellow working for me who ended up with full blown Dursban Twitch and is on SS disability now. While Dursban and MOST Organophosphates are now off the Market (a few left). Delayed reaction to the Cholinesterase inhibitor is a real health problem. I strongly suggest you get checked Not by just any Doctor but a Neuro specialist.
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  #23  
Old 09-01-2011, 06:18 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
... I prefer some slow release N before winter, cuz even during heavy snow cover, the 4 inch soil temp often stays above 32 degrees. Rhizomes of Kentucky bluegrass can still be somewhat active during even the coldest of winters depending upon several factors (soil type, soil temps, sun exposure, etc, etc).

Iowa State University (not the University of Iowa) has done very extensive research regarding the use, formulation, rates, and timing of nitrogen application. ...
"... cuz even during heavy snow cover..."

That quote is what I was referring to in my question about photosynthesis... It is true that the ground will stay warm all winter and the grass green all winter under the snow, but the only thing feeding on these slow release N prills is snow mold... once the snow is gone, whether in Jan or March the grass dies to a brown mulch until soil temps rise to 50 degrees or so...

I still have issue with my extension offices recommending Thanksgiving applications of N... Sounds like Iowa has convinced you of the same idea... I would like them to give the reason WHY rather than some anecdotal notion of it workig better... all they really have is an early Spring N boost from left over winterizer...

What does that do for real thatch???
What does that do to root growth?
What does it do for all those stored carbs? wastes them is what it does and produces lots of top growth while starving roots...

They are not giving logical, rational consistant botany here...

We all understand that our educational system is lacking... I would like them to prove their point and regain their credibility...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #24  
Old 09-01-2011, 06:26 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Thanks for all of the Photosynthesis replies, BTW... I noticed no one would touch the 'Winterizer" post so I'm glad there was a little clarification here...

I've already put down some slow release and I think some fast release next month w/K and be done...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #25  
Old 09-01-2011, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by americanlawn View Post
Granular vs prilled: both can be spread. Prilled is a higher quality/more expensive product. I remember seeing granular urea for just $6.00 per 50 pound bag in the mid 80's.

Larry

I am sorry but I believe you post more Misinformation than the average Member. Prill Towers are what make 46-0-0 urea granules that referred to as Prill. All Prilled elements in a Fertilizer Blend are in fact Granules, but all granules are not made by a Prill Tower and therefore are not Prill. You talk about Granular when in fact Urea is technically a Prill that is made by sucking Nitrogen out of the Air and Heating it to very high temperatures with Natural Gas and cooling it. That is basic operation of a Prill Tower. That is why the Price of Natural Gas and Urea are related

Talk about Prill being High Quality is a falsehood also. In the late 1990's Russia with it's vast Supply of Natural gas was shipping 46-0-0 to the USA and I was buying 50 pound bags for $ 5.00. The Russia Prill had black specs in it instead of being pure white or slightly clear. When dissolved in a tank it left a small residue from those black specs. Therefore Prill is NOT a Higher Quality than any other form of Granules in a Fertilizer Bag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prill
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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

You can lead a Donkey to water but you can't make the Jackass Drink

"As Americans you have the right to be stupid." John Kerry

"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.” John Wayne.
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  #26  
Old 09-02-2011, 12:34 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is online now
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Kleenex and Prills have the same poblem... each gets blamed for the problems of it imitators...

to me 'prill' has come to mean 'time release'... whereas granules will just dissolve as moisture presents itself...

is that a basically acceptable definition?
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #27  
Old 09-02-2011, 02:42 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryclublawnllc View Post
Smallaxe

Into the fall/winter season depending on location etc. the plant will still be photosynthesizing utilizing the suns energy. The energy that it converts from the sun and turns into usable sugars and storable carbohydrates will give it better winter hardiness, root growth, as well as enhancing spring greenup. A good study was done in the mid 80's out of Ohio State that showed the benefits of late fall feeding. As stated above the plant will take up energy either through the shoots or roots as fall progresses, up until close to frozen ground occurs. The later the fertilizing the more it would be preferred to use readily available nitrogen sources opposed. I have always had a good response from the ammonium sulfate products later in the fall or early in the spring but if soil temps are still decent urea would be a cheaper source and still very effective. Here's a link to an article that summarizes the study:

http://turfdisease.osu.edu/turf-dise...-fertilization

John
I like a lot of what's here, but one thing in it bothers me a bit. I don't believe that plants take up energy from shoots and roots, as you stated. Plant energy comes from the breakdown of carbohydrates to ATP in the TCA cycle during respiration (just like in people and animals). Those carbohydrates are formed in the Calvin cycle (only happens in plants and photo autotrophs).

Nutrients taken up through shoots and roots can help form the pieces necessary for these processes, but they can not provide energy.

On a side note, plants will continue to photosynthesize until the chlorophyll is gone. Cold weather contirbutes to cholorphyll breakdown, as does lack of nutrients, decreased day length, and UV radiation.

For 10 bonus points, who can tell us why carbohydrate storage is important for winter hardiness?
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  #28  
Old 09-02-2011, 03:12 PM
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fl-landscapes fl-landscapes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
I like a lot of what's here, but one thing in it bothers me a bit. I don't believe that plants take up energy from shoots and roots, as you stated. Plant energy comes from the breakdown of carbohydrates to ATP in the TCA cycle during respiration (just like in people and animals). Those carbohydrates are formed in the Calvin cycle (only happens in plants and photo autotrophs).

Nutrients taken up through shoots and roots can help form the pieces necessary for these processes, but they can not provide energy.

On a side note, plants will continue to photosynthesize until the chlorophyll is gone. Cold weather contirbutes to cholorphyll breakdown, as does lack of nutrients, decreased day length, and UV radiation.

I,'ll bite. Because the plant still needs energy to survive the winter and less sunlight and or covered in snow the only source of energy to maintain life would be from stored carbohydrates?

For 10 bonus points, who can tell us why carbohydrate storage is important for winter hardiness?
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  #29  
Old 09-02-2011, 03:14 PM
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I'll bite. Because the plant still needs energy to survive and the shorter day light periods and or covered in snow stored carbohydrates are the only energy source it will have to survive
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  #30  
Old 09-02-2011, 05:22 PM
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americanlawn americanlawn is offline
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Scotts fert bag: { 29-0-6 > 4.45% of urea is "coated for slow release". }

I was surprised to see a bag of Scotts that actually told the homeowner how much slow release was in it. The homeowner opened up the bag today so we could actually see the granules. Most were white, a few grey, a few yellow (SCU). This guy said he paid nearly $50 for this 30 pound bag.

While not saying anything bad abiout what he bought, I showed him a bag of our 30-0-5 50% XCU slow release (Agrium).

Anyway, he plans to apply what he bought and then have us start treating his lawn in late fall. Referred by his next door neighbor.
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