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  #31  
Old 09-13-2011, 07:42 PM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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[QUOTE=Falcon50EX;4158812]Ted I also am looking into this product one thing with our Z's I would think I would have to change the hose real gun out because for a fine mist to match the boom, I use it all the time.

Falcon, the first thing I did when I bought my Z's is to add a wand and a T-jet nozzle to match the output of the boom. The stock T-jet gun LT Rich provides is great...the stock tip is a disaster waiting to happen IMO.
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  #32  
Old 09-13-2011, 08:02 PM
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[QUOTE=ted putnam;4159320]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon50EX View Post
Ted I also am looking into this product one thing with our Z's I would think I would have to change the hose real gun out because for a fine mist to match the boom, I use it all the time.

Falcon, the first thing I did when I bought my Z's is to add a wand and a T-jet nozzle to match the output of the boom. The stock T-jet gun LT Rich provides is great...the stock tip is a disaster waiting to happen IMO.
Ted, what type of gun did you use. I am looking into changing it over.

Thanks
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  #33  
Old 09-13-2011, 08:30 PM
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[QUOTE=Falcon50EX;4159338]
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Originally Posted by ted putnam View Post

Ted, what type of gun did you use. I am looking into changing it over.

Thanks
You're missing what I am saying...I kept the T-jet gun(handle/trigger assembly). I ditched the adjustable tip. It gets out of adjustment too easily in my opinion. T-jet manufactures a 16"wand that goes with that gun also. I used it and changed out the tip on it to a T-jet fan tip that is calibrated in sync with the boom nozzles.

"Google T-jet spray gun. Look at what comes up and somewhere in there you'll find the gun and nozzle. It has a model number but I can't remember what it is right off. You should recognize it when you see it.
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  #34  
Old 09-16-2011, 06:05 PM
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more pics

This lawn was treated two weeks ago with GMS and broadleaf herbicide. It is irrigated but the owner did not irrigate through June and July. If you look closely you can see the thin spots from die out. This is also the second app of GMS, it's first app was the last day of April. It's approximately 16K so less than a half gallon of GMS.
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  #35  
Old 09-24-2011, 10:12 PM
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Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
I take it that this will be a fall application on cool season grass to help maintain winter color and ensure the lawn is ready to go when spring comes. How did you arrive at the ratio of 20-0-14? What I would use as a final feeding would involve about 1/2 lb N and 1/2 lb K along with micronutrients. That translates to 100 lb soluble ammonium sulfate, 50 lb potassium nitrate and the label rate of soluble micronutrients. I have a friend in the South that applies straight potassium nitrate and micronutrients to centipede and st augustine as the final feeding in the fall. He has gotten excellent results compared to what he used to do. You do not need to apply P right? I would be one to find out via a soil test. My preferred application volume for turf not on automatic irrigation is 200 gallons per acre. I have applied this rate of fertilizer to turf with only 100 gallons per acre, but that was in cool weather with adequate soil moisture and more rain or irrigation to follow. For this application I used a boom sprayer with 1.5 GPM flood jet tips on 20" spacing and 40 PSI. Hope this answered your question.



Ted, you are right, this type of feeding need not involve some expensive stuff that only lasts a few weeks. I have an idea of what is being referred to . That is not intended for use by landscapers and lawn care operators. It is for usage on golf greens in a 14 day spray program along with whatever fungicides and PGRs they are using. Not on a lawn that gets treated only 4-6 times in a year. My usual lawn formulation costs less than $125 per acre. The granular equivalent is a high potassium greens grade granule that will cost closer to $300 per acre. There is a line of products by Growth Products Inc that I use in addition to my inorganic fertilizers. There are live microorganisms and non plant food ingredients, as well as soluble organic matter in the bottle. Again this is not a replacement for fertilizer. But it is a supplement to a good program. The other way involves 1/2 ton of compost per 1000 sq ft, the labor/machinery to transport it to the site and then spread it. Remember that some of my lawns are not accessible to normal equipment at all. There is a reason why I use an engine drive backpack sprayer and not a Z Spray or Permagreen on many of my lawns.

I do not like urea. Mostly because it does not supply what my lawns need. My lawns need sulfur or calcium. Urea and urea based granules supply neither. Not to mention the effect it has on the grass. I liken it to the maniac at the frat party, chugging tequila and doing lines. He is funny and loud, bouncing off the walls. He is also the one found crashed on the floor of the bathroom the next morning. Grass grows like mad for the first 3-4 weeks, then it gets really pale and thin. A properly formulated, balanced liquid does not do this. I use ammonia nitrogen, nitrate nitrogen, and some CRN, which is a urea polymer that is absorbed into the grass and releases nitrogen weeks later. No readily available urea except for the small amount present in the CRN. There is also lots of potassium, 1/2 lb per 1000 sq ft, which is 6 lb per year in my area. Way more than what is typically applied in the urea based granules I speak badly of. Iron and other micronutrients are also applied at much higher rates than what is found in a typical lawn granule. I get 5-6 weeks of very green grass out of this kind of formulation that does not overgrow or suddenly crash on the 6th week. The lawn actually stays acceptably green for up to 2 months, but I am getting paid to be there every month. So people get a lawn that stays consistently green. Boy, would I look stupid if my lawns only stayed green for 1-2 weeks. I had better get good at asking "would you like a large drink with that", if that was the best I could do. The industry standard here is fertilizing with slow release granules every 3 months. Which usually results in a lawn that looks green for about 45 days and looks absolutely horrible by the 90th day.
I would like to try a liquid program like yours on some of my nicer lawns. Could you clarify the individual components you use. I have access to ammoniun sulfate 21-0-0 at a reasonable price but am having trouble finding an affordable source of potassium. Could you give any brand names or sources for your mixture>
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  #36  
Old 09-26-2011, 01:37 AM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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Ok. What you need first of all is a soil test. The components of the tank mix change based on calcium/magnesium requirements and soil pH. Otherwise, to answer your question about potassium, anyone used to spreading high urea granules is in for sticker shock when they start pricing potassium. I use potassium nitrate as my K source. 13-0-45. Runs around $50 a bag here. But it will cover 1-2 acres depending on the rate it is applied at. I also add a chelated micronutrient mix sold as FEature 6-0-0 from Loveland Products. This is very important because the nice green color that I get from spraying my fertilizers is not from putting down 1 lb of N. It is from the potassium helping with water management and root growth, along with more than adequate levels of micronutrients.
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  #37  
Old 09-26-2011, 07:39 PM
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After reading that, I feel like a 2nd grader sitting in a Chemistry 401 class.

That's very interesting reading green doc.
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  #38  
Old 09-28-2011, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Ok. What you need first of all is a soil test. The components of the tank mix change based on calcium/magnesium requirements and soil pH. Otherwise, to answer your question about potassium, anyone used to spreading high urea granules is in for sticker shock when they start pricing potassium. I use potassium nitrate as my K source. 13-0-45. Runs around $50 a bag here. But it will cover 1-2 acres depending on the rate it is applied at. I also add a chelated micronutrient mix sold as FEature 6-0-0 from Loveland Products. This is very important because the nice green color that I get from spraying my fertilizers is not from putting down 1 lb of N. It is from the potassium helping with water management and root growth, along with more than adequate levels of micronutrients.
On the potassium nitrate at $50, is that a 50 lb bag? I have done a little experimenting with liquid fert on my own lawn and have seen some nice things. Seriously thinking of using it on some of my high end customers who are willing to pay. I anticipate having more time next year as my current regular job may play out.
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  #39  
Old 09-29-2011, 08:14 AM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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Yes, that is priced at up to $50 per 50 lb bag. Think of this in these terms: What other fertilizer you have used that covers at least an acre per bag? For me, liquid fertilizers are a way to give premium results at a reasonable price. The nearest equivalent to what I apply to a lawn would be a greens grade fertilizer made with MESA, potassium sulfate not potassium chloride, no urea, and a complete chelated micronutrient package. Have not found a granule even coming close to those specifications for less than $300 per acre. I can formulate a liquid for no more than $200 per acre where the color lasts for more than 30 days.
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  #40  
Old 09-29-2011, 11:52 AM
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Another Photo

This pic is my test/control lawn. It receives only GMS and Gypsum for feeding.

It's 30k, receives 1gal GMS per acre 3x a year and 10lbs of Gypsum per/K in the fall. No granular fertilizer at all. It's mostley tall fescue with a bit of KBG in the back yard.
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