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  #71  
Old 11-05-2011, 10:39 PM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
I am imagining that it has more to do with what is being fed to the grass rather than where it is being applied. My typical mix is high K, high Manganese and iron, with no 46-0-0 or urea. I am not doing sprays that involve a couple of bags of urea, maybe some potassium chloride and that is it. My spray is much more comprehensive than that.
That may be the case. When I began dealing with these unfamiliar fungal problems, I did a little reading on them and found that they developed in the thatch layer and spread from there. Most granulars are not going to sit on top and even if they did, they would not be readily absorbed by the plant there. They would have to be dissolved making their way through the thatch layer into the root zone. That was my point in the foliar vs. granular comparison. This GMS product was developed to be absorbed through top portions of the plant, especially leaves. It is not meant to be absorbed by the roots at all from what I've read.
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  #72  
Old 11-05-2011, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Falcon50EX View Post
Well no frost in my area, but I am 90 miles south of Atlanta. I over-seeded my front lawn with perennial rye for the first time. Part of the overall look is form the new grass PR. It looks really good considering the lawns on either side of me are going dormant. I will spray it again next weekend. I have used chelated micromix and have had excellent results and good idea to mix the two I will try it in the spring. I have a mix of 50% Burmuda and 45% Zoisa 5% centipede. The analysis is right and that is what is said on the side of the one gallon jugs I have.
Off topic I am still looking for the right interchangable spray tips for my backpacks and hand cans. I did find an awesome wand for my Z but it has a cone tip i am going to remove and replace with a flat fan.
Yes, I am 50 miles north of Little Rock. ArTurf is probably more in line with your "Latitude". It's really not that big of a difference between you and I unless it is during the Spring or Fall transition. Then, 50-100 miles and 3 weeks time can put you and I in 2 totally different stages of green up and/or dormancy.
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  #73  
Old 11-06-2011, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
One observable benefit of a prescription all liquid program is the reduction of disease. The worst offenders in my area are dollar spot, leaf spot and Take All Patch. Not managing these issues with smart fertilization practices and irrigation means that a lawn can be on fungicides 12 months out of the year. Since going to all liquids, I only have occasional trouble with dollar spot and that is if it is rainy and hot for more than a few days. It is rare for the weather to be that way. Its either raining and cold or hot and dry.
I will second the custom blended fertilizer reducing disease if applied correctly. Big problem is those who actually cause Fungus with the wrong fertilizer Blend and over application of that blend. A healthy green turf doesn't need a ton of urea. in fact IMHO Urea is the worst thing for turf and the best way to get disease. I won't give away my blends but I will say they are heavy on Micro elements.

Mancozeb Fungicide now no longer labeled for turf, was in fact nothing more than Macro application of Micro elements of Fertilizer. Mancozeb is nothing more than Mn and Zinc applied in larger quantity compared to using it as a fertilizer in smaller quantities. Zinc is a strong drying agent and can be toxic very quick if over applied.

Ted

a 100 miles makes a Huge difference in climate. I am 75 miles of North of Miami and have a different Climate and different plants. Heck I live on the north side of a River and while Coconut palms will grow here, They will not product Coconuts. Cross the river and the South side is loaded with Coconuts. BTW Tampa St Pete area is over a 100 miles North of me and Coconuts grow there. WHY??? Because Tampa Bay is a large body of water that cause the Tampa Bay area to be a warmer Micro Climate. Yes each area has it's only Climate and soil.
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  #74  
Old 11-06-2011, 09:29 AM
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Falcon50EX Falcon50EX is offline
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Originally Posted by ted putnam View Post
I wish I'd sprayed mine when you did or even earlier. We had a couple nights of light frosts at least a week ago. This area where I applied is primarily an eastern exposure and was somewhat protected but lawns I service around here already have exposed areas with the "squiglies" that form from the frost settling in lower pockets in the bermuda. I've gotten calls from customers who thought they had worms I'm expecting at least one of those calls any time now Long story short, I didn't see much in the way of results. My fault. I waited and shouldn't have. So you are pleased with the results of the GMS??? You applied half the rate of GMS I did with almost 50% more carrier?? What type of turf do you have? I am central Arkansas I believe I was told the analysis on it was 10-20-10. I was thinking a chelated micromix might do well with it especially in light of what Ric has posted. Your thoughts on this?? I am eager to experiment with actively growing turf.
One more thought, I would put out GMS at .33 per thousand from my Z this spring. If I mixed Chelated micomix it calls for 2gal per thousand how would it do if applied at .33 any ideas? To my understanding and that's not saying much part of the Chelated is a direct foliage feed but what about the other parts of it. GMS is to get sprayed below 80 and with the dew still on the ground so would that also help in the breaking down of the Chelated. This is going to be trial and error to some degree. I will start on my lawn first and three others, that I maintain on a weekly basis all Bermuda.
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  #75  
Old 11-06-2011, 10:26 AM
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I have never been a fan of Ride On sprayers that have a Low volume application rate for Liquid Fertilizer. They might be OK for some low volume Herbicide applications. My L & O Cab Over has 3 tanks and separate spray set ups that don't connect in any way. I have shrub Tank that I spray to the point of Run off plus some root drench. I Have a 5 gallon a Thousand Lawn fert and insect tank. And I have the 1 or 2 Gallon a thousand Herbicide Tank depending on what I am spraying. Certainty label says 2 gallons a thousand. Celsius label calls for one Gallon a thousand.

I admit Large volume carriers are OLD SCHOOL methods but they still work. My Toro Multi Pro Ride on Sprayer is set up to apply 3 gallons a thousand. At these rates I don't have trouble with over lapping or burn issues.

IMHO the Perma Green / Z sprayer liquid applications should be limited to minimal fertilizer touch up in support of other complete fertilizer applications. They are designed more for very light fertilizer treatments and Herbicides. Back to my first post about how I use Organic, Granule and Liquid fertilizers in my program.


.
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"TG doesn't give a rats ass about being "Responsible" as long as sales/production quotas are met. That's it in a nutshell. A recipe for disaster IMO." Ted Putnam 2/28/14

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  #76  
Old 11-06-2011, 06:54 PM
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CHARLES CUE CHARLES CUE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Very different materials. Sulfate of potash is neutral in reaction applied to the soil and neutral if dissolved in water. KTS or potassium thiosulfate will acidify soil and is alkaline in solution. There is also a matter of solubility period. I cannot get enough sulfate of potash into solution to make it worthwhile as a K source for a liquid program.
Thank you for the info

Charles Cue
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  #77  
Old 11-06-2011, 08:08 PM
ArTurf ArTurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon50EX View Post
One more thought, I would put out GMS at .33 per thousand from my Z this spring. If I mixed Chelated micomix it calls for 2gal per thousand how would it do if applied at .33 any ideas? To my understanding and that's not saying much part of the Chelated is a direct foliage feed but what about the other parts of it. GMS is to get sprayed below 80 and with the dew still on the ground so would that also help in the breaking down of the Chelated. This is going to be trial and error to some degree. I will start on my lawn first and three others, that I maintain on a weekly basis all Bermuda.
I have been wondering how low volume and liquid fert would work and finally came to the conclusion that I am going to go with 2 gallons per K with my Z Max. I will use the grey tips and go slower (see Z chart). I might use 1 gal per K if conditions are perfect and then water with irrigation.

Read this info.
With fertilizers, it is always over 2 gallons per 1000. My actual rate of ammonium N or nitrate N will influence the range. If I am going over 1/2 lb of non CRN nitrogen, it is sprayed out in 2 gallons per 1000. If it is over 85 at the time of application, water volume goes up to 5 gallons per 1000. I have had grass scorch before I was able to irrigate the application in if the water volume was too low. Centipede gets 1/4-1/2 lb of N per month 50% from CRN. St Augustine is 1/2-1 lb of N up to 33% is from CRN. Bermuda is 1-11/2 lb of N 33% from CRN. Zoysia is at 1/2-1 lb 33% CRN. N is not the only thing I am applying either. For all grasses, there is up to 1/2 lb of K from potassium nitrate in each application. The lower rate of the range is for the cold, and cloudy months. I really have to pay attention to the weather trends. Pushing grass with high rates when the temps are below 80 in the day and 70 at night is a waste. However, if I do not have enough fertilizer down when it is 80 at night and over 80 in the day time leads to grass that looks really bad.

I have applied at 1 gallon per 1000, but that is very scary. I only get away with it if it is cool and humid. Otherwise, grass can burn before you can irrigate. On big lawns, I am spraying right ahead of the irrigation zones as they go on if I am am applying anything over a 1/2 lb per 1000 mix.
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  #78  
Old 11-06-2011, 08:57 PM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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I will not apply fertilizer to a lawn using low volume liquid apps unless it is a true foliar feed. If I had a much lower customer count I might consider it. There are too many variables for me to deal with and unless you are extremely careful, it can be a recipe for disaster. 80% of my customers do not have irrigation systems so watering immediately afterward is not possible for the most part. I don't visit my customers lawns once a month. I am there every 7 weeks so spoon feeding is out of the question. I am OLD SCHOOL in many ways also but I try to keep an open mind to new equipment, products and techniques that will make my life easier...IF THEY WORK. I still do my pre-emergent apps with a hose reel and gun at 2gpm. We are about 3 days away from finishing my Fall pre-emerg. We've spent 6 wks spraying 5.5 million ft sq using this method.. I did a few huge accounts with the Z spray just to see how low volume liquid apps of pre work but still have more confidence in how I've always done it. This GMS product was developed as a true foliar feed. The info I have on it recommends not applying it if rain is in the forecast and says that it should remain unirrigated for at least 12 hrs for optimum absorption to take place. It will be a learning experience for me.
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  #79  
Old 11-07-2011, 07:49 AM
ArTurf ArTurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArTurf View Post
I have been wondering how low volume and liquid fert would work and finally came to the conclusion that I am going to go with 2 gallons per K with my Z Max. I will use the grey tips and go slower (see Z chart). I might use 1 gal per K if conditions are perfect and then water with irrigation.

Read this info.
With fertilizers, it is always over 2 gallons per 1000. My actual rate of ammonium N or nitrate N will influence the range. If I am going over 1/2 lb of non CRN nitrogen, it is sprayed out in 2 gallons per 1000. If it is over 85 at the time of application, water volume goes up to 5 gallons per 1000. I have had grass scorch before I was able to irrigate the application in if the water volume was too low. Centipede gets 1/4-1/2 lb of N per month 50% from CRN. St Augustine is 1/2-1 lb of N up to 33% is from CRN. Bermuda is 1-11/2 lb of N 33% from CRN. Zoysia is at 1/2-1 lb 33% CRN. N is not the only thing I am applying either. For all grasses, there is up to 1/2 lb of K from potassium nitrate in each application. The lower rate of the range is for the cold, and cloudy months. I really have to pay attention to the weather trends. Pushing grass with high rates when the temps are below 80 in the day and 70 at night is a waste. However, if I do not have enough fertilizer down when it is 80 at night and over 80 in the day time leads to grass that looks really bad.

I have applied at 1 gallon per 1000, but that is very scary. I only get away with it if it is cool and humid. Otherwise, grass can burn before you can irrigate. On big lawns, I am spraying right ahead of the irrigation zones as they go on if I am am applying anything over a 1/2 lb per 1000 mix.
Just so everyone understands this info is from GreenDoctor.
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  #80  
Old 11-07-2011, 07:57 AM
ArTurf ArTurf is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ted putnam View Post
I will not apply fertilizer to a lawn using low volume liquid apps unless it is a true foliar feed. If I had a much lower customer count I might consider it. There are too many variables for me to deal with and unless you are extremely careful, it can be a recipe for disaster. 80% of my customers do not have irrigation systems so watering immediately afterward is not possible for the most part. I don't visit my customers lawns once a month. I am there every 7 weeks so spoon feeding is out of the question. I am OLD SCHOOL in many ways also but I try to keep an open mind to new equipment, products and techniques that will make my life easier...IF THEY WORK. I still do my pre-emergent apps with a hose reel and gun at 2gpm. We are about 3 days away from finishing my Fall pre-emerg. We've spent 6 wks spraying 5.5 million ft sq using this method.. I did a few huge accounts with the Z spray just to see how low volume liquid apps of pre work but still have more confidence in how I've always done it. This GMS product was developed as a true foliar feed. The info I have on it recommends not applying it if rain is in the forecast and says that it should remain unirrigated for at least 12 hrs for optimum absorption to take place. It will be a learning experience for me.
I am the opposite of you, about 80% of my customers are irrigated. (I work in irrigation also). This year must have been really tough on you with the drought. I don't have near the volume you have, just a part timer at this point. Sounds like you really have it going on. What fall pre's do you use.
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