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  #21  
Old 12-09-2011, 08:33 PM
steveparrott steveparrott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr1ffin View Post
It's no surprise VOLT makes its fixtures made overseas just like every other significant landscape lighting manufacturer except Vista (as far as I know)...
Don't forget about CAST, while our foundry (that we own) is in Colombia, it's not really overseas - you could walk there if you had the time
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  #22  
Old 12-10-2011, 12:20 PM
indylights indylights is offline
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It's crazy to think the to this point it's been hard to find a tree downlight that was both water proof (always/guaranteed) and had glare protection and enabled full wide BAB beam spreads. I think it's great that contractors and the industry will be getting improvements.[/QUOTE]


The CAST tree light has done that for years, and is still, IMHO, the best on the market. When they get the LED version in the spring as Steve mentioned in a different thread, it will probably make that gap even wider.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes
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  #23  
Old 12-10-2011, 01:47 PM
Alan B Alan B is offline
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Scott,

I hear you and agree with the first 2 points (leak proof and great glare protection). I'm not sure about enabling full BAB or 60 degree beam spreads.

Again it's my understanding that the Cast tree light is awesome and one of the few that does not leak and has great glare protection. From the one I handled (about a year ago) I thought that the very long glare guard being narrow and long like a cannon, it would give great glare protection however I'm not sure how it would be physically possible to have a 60 degree (or wide beam spread with it). Even though it has a long angle/big opening at the end, it would be physically impossible for it not to be blocking much of the beam spread of the lamp.

Since 20 w 60 degree lamps are the goto lamp for most downlights, to me it makes sense that fixture should ALSO enable a full 60 degrees of beam spread. Again, I agree with you on the first 2 points and that said, up until now I hear that Cast makes one of the (if not the best) tree lights out there. If it can enable a full 60 degree beam spread... even better.

Regarding the VOLT design, the glare guard is flared so it gets wider to lessen any blocking of wide beam spreads while also providing glare protection. That's simple physics. Being adjustable in and out the contractor can control how much glare protection they need and can control how wide the beam spread. Lastly, seals can fail. The Volt design makes it impossible to get water in the fixture because water will not fall up and there are no downward entry points into the inside of the fixture.
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Last edited by Alan B; 12-10-2011 at 01:52 PM.
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  #24  
Old 12-10-2011, 04:42 PM
indylights indylights is offline
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I have used many 60 degree lamps in the many CAST tree lights I have used over the past nine years. Beam spreads have been pretty dead on.

I didn't say a word about the Volt design, so no reason to defend something not under scrutiny. But since you brought it up, I would be careful with the word "impossible". There has to be a wire coming out of the housing somewhere, and as you said, seals can fail.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes

Last edited by indylights; 12-10-2011 at 04:52 PM.
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  #25  
Old 12-11-2011, 12:03 AM
Alan B Alan B is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr1ffin View Post
Scott,
Lastly, seals can fail. The Volt design makes it impossible to get water in the fixture because water will not fall up and there are no downward entry points into the inside of the fixture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by indylights View Post
I would be careful with the word "impossible". There has to be a wire coming out of the housing somewhere, and as you said, seals can fail.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes
Scott you are right about using the word impossible-- someone could mount the fixture upside down or underwater. I'm not sure if you looked at the Volt CAD drawing earlier in the thread or noticed my reference I underlined above but there are no downward facing entry points into the VOLT fixture so even if the seals fail water cannot enter. The lead wire enters from the opposite direction as it does from most downlights-- the lead wire is going upwards when the fixture is aimed down (the pressure fitting we have is not even needed). Dripping water cannot run up the wire. Even without a pressure fitting (or even silicon), water does not enter the fixture when its tree mounted aiming downwards. Also note the knuckle is not hollow and there is no entry point or hole thru the knuckle and into the fixture.

All other downlights I am aware of are designed with a mechanical device (gaskets, silicon, pressure fitting what have you) to stop water from coming in the knuckle or seeping down the lead wire and into the fixture. They are not needed in the VOLT downlight due to its physical design. Just as an upside down bucket can't get water in it.

Regarding "no reason to defend something not under scrutiny"... not defending, I'm marketing. As a Sponsor here and am here to market and promote my products. I don't post much even though we spend quite a bit with Moose River Media, so when I do, it's smart to plug my products every once in a while.
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Last edited by Alan B; 12-11-2011 at 12:12 AM.
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  #26  
Old 12-11-2011, 12:42 AM
indylights indylights is offline
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water cannot run up the wire. Even without a pressure fitting (or even silicon), water does not enter the fixture when its tree mounted aiming downwards.


There are numerous scientists, meterologists, and electricians who would argue that point. And yes, I did look at your drawings. Hopefully you will put that word on your advertisement. As much as you like lawsuits, that would be interesting.

Scott Maloney
Sunflower Landscapes
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  #27  
Old 12-11-2011, 02:10 AM
Alan B Alan B is offline
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Scott,

Thank you for your comments. You often comment after I make an appearance and post. It usually gives me the opportunity discuss, point out advantages, promote and market our products.

Have a great Holiday Season.

Cheers,

Alan
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  #28  
Old 12-11-2011, 07:57 AM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomwilllight View Post
"James this is weird, in fact it's uncanny" ?!?!?!

James, Alan. Do you think we all were born yesterday?

Come on... Tell us where you're importing your product from...

Tom
Tom: Both the Ilumicare Hyperion and Aether fixtures are engineered and manufactured in Germany. Not sure if you have had the pleasure of using German products yet, but those who have generally agree that they are superior products in terms of design, engineering, precision, manufacturing, fit and finish.
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  #29  
Old 12-11-2011, 08:30 AM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
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I would like to use this post and space to clear up some common mis conceptions that seem to percolate through the Industry now and then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr1ffin View Post
I know nothing about James fixtures (except that he used to lambast chinese made fixtures before he became a manu dig dig joke joke )... James Solecki / INTEGRA Works is not a manufacturer of products, nor an agent, nor a rep. I do work in a consultative role with Illumicare Group, acting as a product development specialist and contractor liaison. Knowing this, there is no such thing as "James' Fixtures". These are Illumicare products; built by, sold by and backed by Illumicare Group Ltc. http://www.illumicaregroup.com/

The reason is James was discussing his design way back before he was a sponsor so he's been working on his a long time also. Yes work has been done for many months on these new fixtures, about 18 months in development, but alas they are not 'my' fixtures, nor am I a sponsor here.

I thought James fixture had an adjustable glare guard, a separe piece that moves. he doesn't, his is fixed. This is not correct. The glare guard on both the Illumicare Hyperion and Aether fixtures is in fact adjustable, allowing for sight line glare control through 360 Degrees of rotation. The precision machining on the shroud to lens assembly is quite impressive and the shrouds attach using a simple knurled thumb screw (no tools to fumble with in the field)

I don't want to make too much of it. I'm proud of our fixtures and James look like very nice quality as well. I called James right after posting-- he's on vacation and we are good. I bet they are both incredible quality and values. VOLT listened to contractors to design ours, and James is a contractor so he knows what needed to be done as well. It's crazy to think the to this point it's been hard to find a tree downlight that was both water proof (always/guaranteed) and had glare protection and enabled full wide BAB beam spreads. I think it's great that contractors and the industry will be getting improvements.
Here I agree whole-heartedly with Alan. It is great to see all of these new, improved fixtures coming to market. The entire industry will benefit from the ability to provide the customer with well designed, rugged, long lasting, professional grade products. I have been asking for, (and offering to help with) the development of water proof fixtures for years but found most manufactures unwilling or unable to help. Not sure why, as water ingress into fixtures is probably the most common source of failure over time.

As a designer & installer, I am thrilled to now have both an IP68 rated bullet (Illumicare Aether) and tree mounted down light (Illumicare Hyperion) to use on my installations. Precision engineering and manufacture make our lives so much easier. No more having to drill weep holes in the shroud of the treelights to protect them from becomming filled with water over time. No more reliance upon rough castings and haphazzard machining of components to keep the elements out, and no more returning to site to find fixtures that have fallen out of aim.
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  #30  
Old 12-11-2011, 04:17 PM
steveparrott steveparrott is offline
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In defense of a long shroud for tree lights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr1ffin View Post
Scott,

I hear you and agree with the first 2 points (leak proof and great glare protection). I'm not sure about enabling full BAB or 60 degree beam spreads.

Again it's my understanding that the Cast tree light is awesome and one of the few that does not leak and has great glare protection. From the one I handled (about a year ago) I thought that the very long glare guard being narrow and long like a cannon, it would give great glare protection however I'm not sure how it would be physically possible to have a 60 degree (or wide beam spread with it). Even though it has a long angle/big opening at the end, it would be physically impossible for it not to be blocking much of the beam spread of the lamp.

Since 20 w 60 degree lamps are the goto lamp for most downlights, to me it makes sense that fixture should ALSO enable a full 60 degrees of beam spread. Again, I agree with you on the first 2 points and that said, up until now I hear that Cast makes one of the (if not the best) tree lights out there. If it can enable a full 60 degree beam spread... even better.

Regarding the VOLT design, the glare guard is flared so it gets wider to lessen any blocking of wide beam spreads while also providing glare protection. That's simple physics. Being adjustable in and out the contractor can control how much glare protection they need and can control how wide the beam spread. Lastly, seals can fail. The Volt design makes it impossible to get water in the fixture because water will not fall up and there are no downward entry points into the inside of the fixture.
It may intuitively make sense to design a tree light shroud that allows the full 60 degree beam to exit the fixture equally on all sides, but here's the thinking behind an extra long shroud.

The first thing to recognize is that beam angle is defined as the angle at which 50% of the maximum beam intensity is projected. For example, if the intensity of a lamp at it's brightest point (usually the center point - 0 degrees) is 100 candelas then you would look for the angle that projects 50 candelas. If that angle is 60 degrees, then you have a 60 degree beam angle.

Of course, in the above example, you still have significant light projecting beyond 60 degrees - it depends on the lamp, optics, and fixture design. It's quite possible you could have significant light up to 70 or 80 degrees. That's OK in most uplighting situations. But if you are downlighting then you need to be extra careful about direct glare and be very conscious about this light that strays outside the chosen beam angle.

Direct glare occurs when a viewer sees projected light at less than about 50 degrees from the horizon. You, of course, try to prevent that by mounting the fixture at a height about equal to the illuminated viewer's distance from the tree trunk (that would be a 45 degree angle). It's difficult enough to get the fixture high enough when you're dealing with the large spread of a 60 degree lamp, but if you're projecting pools of light that go to 70 or 80 degrees, then avoiding direct glare is even more difficult.

Using an extra-long shroud cuts off the beam just short of the 60 degree angle from one side and allows the designer to project the brighter portion of the light closer to the viewer. And, it allows the full 60 (or 70 or 80) degree beam to be projected on all other sides. You might think this makes a lopsided beam, but that's not noticeable since the light is always projected at an angle - usually with the cutoff side at the top of the elongated beam.

Long story, short. An extra-long shroud only cuts off the light at one end of the beam. That cut-off gives the designer more flexibility in positioning the fixture, allowing him to mount the light lower and to more easily prevent direct glare.
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813.978.3700
stevep@voltlighting.com
www.voltlighting.com



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