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  #11  
Old 12-15-2011, 12:34 AM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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Originally Posted by grassmasterswilson View Post
No crabgrass pre. Only simazine for fall pre. Guy said they may have sprayed something wrong the year before that killed some areas. Might have skipped the pre to get those areas to fill in.

They fertilized in feb and nov when turf was dormant and no signs of greening up.

This lawn acutally looked ok, although it had been sprayed a month ago with 3way.
A couple of years ago TG sprayed Atrazine in the late spring on some hybrid bermudas and killed a bunch of yards. I went down one street and saw 7 lawns That were dead(not dormant) except for a half inch strip around all edges. It seems they had a manager quit and brought a yankee down to fill in. He just grabbed a fill sheet for "Round 1" out of the file cabinet and filled all the trucks in the branch I suppose nobody around there had the sense to tell him what a big mistake he was making....
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2011, 04:45 AM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
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1. Potassium chloride is toxic to centipede grass. Centipede and zoysia are chloride sensitive, especially in heavy soil.

2. Unless the soil is already very acid(pH less than 6), urea is not a good nitrogen source. Ammonium sulfate is preferred.

3. Where is the iron and micronutrients?

Centipede should never need that many herbicide applications unless it is thin and improperly managed. Manor needs to be applied very carefully to centipede. Rates over 1/2 oz per acre can be damaging. I also see too many phenoxy herbicides. I have really messed up centipede with the label rate of Trimec Southern before. If broadleaf weeds are a known issue in the lawn, that is an indication for usage of Gallery DF as a preemergent. It is ok to use Gallery on centipede, it does not prune roots like a conventional preemergent.
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2011, 09:33 PM
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AuburnHort2005 AuburnHort2005 is offline
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looks like a bunch of jibberish to me
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  #14  
Old 12-16-2011, 11:54 AM
Volman Volman is offline
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OK guys. Maybe I'm missing something here , but no where does it say anything about lime. I've also noticed this on some other big box companys ads. How can they get by without lime? especially with that rate of N.
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  #15  
Old 12-16-2011, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Volman View Post
OK guys. Maybe I'm missing something here , but no where does it say anything about lime. I've also noticed this on some other big box companys ads. How can they get by without lime? especially with that rate of N.
" Sir, The pH of your lawn is XXX, Your lawn would really benefit from a Lime application. Of course, the benefits would be realized much sooner if we Aerated before we apply the Lime. When can we schedule your lawn for these additional, beneficial applications?"


That's how.
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  #16  
Old 12-16-2011, 12:19 PM
Volman Volman is offline
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I guess it's all about the upsell. I just always thought that should be standard
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2011, 12:57 PM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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Originally Posted by Volman View Post
I guess it's all about the upsell. I just always thought that should be standard
Yea, your problem is you actually care about the customers lawn.

I do too!

You may not get rich quick, but there are long term benefits to this "downfall"
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2011, 12:57 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Maybe they're only offering lime if its needed. We tend to harp on the big boys for upselling or putting out things that aren't needed, but is it possible that they got this one right? Volman's saying that is needs to be included because of their N rates, but lime need isn't based on N rate -- its based on soil pH.

Maybe they tested the soil and found that it didn't need lime. Maybe they tried to sell it to the customer and the customer didn't want to buy it.

It just seems like we're jumping to conclusions here. I wonder what my competitors might say if they saw the invoices of my customers who wanted to skip apps to save money?
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  #19  
Old 12-16-2011, 01:12 PM
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ted putnam ted putnam is offline
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Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
Maybe they're only offering lime if its needed. We tend to harp on the big boys for upselling or putting out things that aren't needed, but is it possible that they got this one right? Volman's saying that is needs to be included because of their N rates, but lime need isn't based on N rate -- its based on soil pH.

Maybe they tested the soil and found that it didn't need lime. Maybe they tried to sell it to the customer and the customer didn't want to buy it.

It just seems like we're jumping to conclusions here. I wonder what my competitors might say if they saw the invoices of my customers who wanted to skip apps to save money?
Usually(not always) N rates should indirectly affect soil pH, I would think because of the use of SCU. Sulfur does lower soil pH if I'm not mistaken. Ammonium Sulfate would also fall into this category. Of course, all of this depends on rates used.

Some customers skip apps because they are cheap. Some skip for financial reasons beyond their control. Everyone deals with both and they should be informed of the possibility of inferior results with a less than FULL program. Make no mistake. The FULL program should be explained on the front end.

One fact is firmly established. TG is the "KING" of upsell.
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"The Poor Fish" circa 1930's: The Poor Fish wouldn't have been caught if he'd known enough to keep his fool mouth shut.

"Opportunity is missed by most because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"- Thomas Edison, businessman/inventor
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2011, 02:24 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Originally Posted by ted putnam View Post
Usually(not always) N rates should indirectly affect soil pH, I would think because of the use of SCU. Sulfur does lower soil pH if I'm not mistaken. Ammonium Sulfate would also fall into this category. Of course, all of this depends on rates used.

Some customers skip apps because they are cheap. Some skip for financial reasons beyond their control. Everyone deals with both and they should be informed of the possibility of inferior results with a less than FULL program. Make no mistake. The FULL program should be explained on the front end.

One fact is firmly established. TG is the "KING" of upsell.
N applications can impact soil pH, but generally not significantly and they're certainly not the only thing that impacts pH. Existing soil pH and buffer capacity are more important than fertilizer choice. In a famous fertilizer study done in Kansas, pH in the top 4 inches of soil dropped 2 pH units (6.5 to 4.5) over 40 years of ammonium sulfate apps at 200#N/A/yr (4.5#N/M/yr). With only 20 years of fertilization, pH dropped 0.8 pH units (6.5 to 5.7). This is why our industry gets a bad name -- people run out and apply all sorts of things without knowing what they're doing!

I certainly get the importance of stressing to customers that the full program is the way to go. Years ago, I did only full prgrams -- if a customer wanted to skip apps and I couldn't talk them out of it, I dropped them. I wouldn't place them on financial hold if they did't pay their bill -- I keep doing apps and charge them a late fee. I found that I lost customers and money that way, but I did have great looking lawns.
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