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  #11  
Old 01-25-2012, 08:52 PM
larryinalabama larryinalabama is offline
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My opinion is if you purchase a block with a lip and the lip is not there the masoniry supply store should replace the block, thats what you and your customer paid for.
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  #12  
Old 01-25-2012, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryinalabama View Post
My opinion is if you purchase a block with a lip and the lip is not there the masoniry supply store should replace the block, thats what you and your customer paid for.

Amen! End of story! BEST post of the WEEK!



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  #13  
Old 01-25-2012, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
I can assure you, the lip **helps** hold the type of block in the picture in place. Keyword: HELPS. We just wrapped up a job last week where they had a 4" block wall that we removed. No drainage aggregate. No fabric, no nothin. If it wasn't for that lip....the block would have been on the ground!

And......I have pictures of the wall before I took it down. took 3 of 'em!

And yes, the pins do shear.

LOL - I think we've seen quite a few posts of mere speculation from 'ol Tom


Stop using that junk block and use a real block Cornerstone

,
Ok so now it "helps" wow that was edited fast. lol

And I'd love for you to point out a post of mere speculation from me.
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  #14  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by TomG View Post
Ok so now it "helps" wow that was edited fast. lol

And I'd love for you to point out a post of mere speculation from me.
Of course it "helps". Each compoment of the block is part of a system. Same with a paver, each component of the paver is part of the system.

I seem to recall someone writing posts with someone making some presumptions as recent as this past fall


ok, everyone QUITE - the MD/Duke game is on




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"It's You vs. You"

"People Throw Rocks At Things That Shine"


My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.
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  #15  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:19 PM
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Heres the photogragh.
Attached Images
 
__________________
"It's You vs. You"

"People Throw Rocks At Things That Shine"


My Equipment Brag List:

-1 CAT hat
-16 pairs of Hanes socks (the Heavy Duty model), many with holes.
-12 pairs of underwear, ranging from Joe Boxers to Jockey, many are in need of replacement. (no more photo requests please)
-hundreds of t-shirts. Some w/ grease stains, some torn & tattered.
-7 pairs of jeans, ranging from Levis to Polo to GAP. 1/2 of them have holes in 'em.
-1 belt
-1 pair of old worn out Nike shoes.
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  #16  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:25 PM
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DVS what year did you get NCMA certified?
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  #17  
Old 01-25-2012, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DVS Hardscaper View Post
I can assure you, the lip **helps** hold the type of block in the picture in place. Keyword: HELPS. We just wrapped up a job last week where they had a 4" block wall that we removed. No drainage aggregate. No fabric, no nothin. If it wasn't for that lip....the block would have been on the ground!
Ok. So the lip helps if you otherwise construct the wall totally wrong? That's your point???

If something is only needed because you screwed up everything else, then it's not really needed. What's needed is to just to build it the right way in the first place. You don't rely on a stop gap to save the day. You should just build it correctly and then you don't ever need the stop gap.

You gotta be willing to be a little open minded and admit you don't know it all sometimes, Andrew. It helps to get the facts too, rather than just come to your own conclusions and assume that you are always right. I thought for sure I knew what that lip on the concrete blocks was for and I thought I knew what the pins inside the keystone blocks were for too. But I was wrong. At least I can admit it.

Admitting you were wrong isn't a sign of weakness. It's a sign of maturity.
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  #18  
Old 01-25-2012, 10:11 PM
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SVA_Concrete SVA_Concrete is offline
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Easy to believe the lip is of no structural significance. Friction is a powerful thing.

Friction stops a 80 thousand pound truck, no cogs or lips. Friction holds buildings down in the ground from wind uplift as well as holds buildings up from sinking (friction piles)

Structural engineering fascinates me.

If those little lips can break so easily during shipping.... would we really rely on them for structure?

Going back to the original problem with the supplier, they should make a statement prior to purchase to the effect of broken lips are not a returnable defect... yards yadda
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  #19  
Old 01-26-2012, 12:03 AM
crazymike crazymike is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVA_Concrete View Post
Easy to believe the lip is of no structural significance. Friction is a powerful thing.

Friction stops a 80 thousand pound truck, no cogs or lips. Friction holds buildings down in the ground from wind uplift as well as holds buildings up from sinking (friction piles)

Structural engineering fascinates me.

If those little lips can break so easily during shipping.... would we really rely on them for structure?

Going back to the original problem with the supplier, they should make a statement prior to purchase to the effect of broken lips are not a returnable defect... yards yadda
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Any of the engineers that have designed large commercial walls have told me that friction is what stops them from moving.

I've used the brooklin concrete/armtec landmark blocks. They are massive blocks, similar to mafia blocks. The engineer basically said, if it gets to the point where the earth can move the block to break the friction, it will also just ride the ledge right up and over. Basically the ledge is just for alignment.

http://www.armtec.com/en-ca/Products...mark-Wall.aspx


Granted, these are massive blocks, 2' x 5' blocks. But I imagine the same principal applies when scaled down.


---

All that said, if that many ledges chipped off, I would take them back. The ledges might be unnecessary, but it would make me question the integrity of that batch of blocks. The ledges might fail now, the entire block might start to chip apart 12 months from now.
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  #20  
Old 01-26-2012, 10:26 AM
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DVS Hardscaper DVS Hardscaper is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLewis View Post
Ok. So the lip helps if you otherwise construct the wall totally wrong? That's your point???

If something is only needed because you screwed up everything else, then it's not really needed. What's needed is to just to build it the right way in the first place. You don't rely on a stop gap to save the day. You should just build it correctly and then you don't ever need the stop gap.

You gotta be willing to be a little open minded and admit you don't know it all sometimes, Andrew. It helps to get the facts too, rather than just come to your own conclusions and assume that you are always right. I thought for sure I knew what that lip on the concrete blocks was for and I thought I knew what the pins inside the keystone blocks were for too. But I was wrong. At least I can admit it.

Admitting you were wrong isn't a sign of weakness. It's a sign of maturity.
Jim buddy, your post was a little extreme. I never said for sure what the lip was for, look at my wording. So I am not wrong or right. Our blocks don't have lips. Or pins, Jim. I know walls are all about gravity. My bother in law is a geotechnical engineer, I have access to all the facts I want

When I'm wrong I admit it. And I'm very open minded, and my archives of posts here reflect that. I don't write 6 long paragraph posts like you do Jim, and I don't read 6 Paragragh longs posts either, I skim them. Telling me that I cant admit it and telling me I'm not open minded - is a sign that you're stressed and dealing with it by lashing out at others

I'm merely putting another spin on the purpose of lips. To stimulate thought and provoke conversation. But thanks for your official evaluation of me

And Jim, our walls don't fail. Of the hundreds we've done, and weve probably done more than you, we had (1) 30" high wall fall because of a seasonal spring behind the wall that we were not aware of. So I'm not sure what you're meaning about failing walls.

Like I say, our block doesn't have lips. Or pins.
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Last edited by DVS Hardscaper; 01-26-2012 at 10:36 AM.
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