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  #11  
Old 02-28-2012, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just pondering View Post
Great info on the blog Tad, good job.What ever happen to K.I.S.S everyone is looking to manufacture the miracle cure and forgetting to work with mother nature. It really is simple the correct size filter, the right amount of plants and do not over feed or put to many fish in your pond and all this equals a happy customer. Just my to cents
It might be your two cents, but it is million dollar correct advice. You couldn't have stated the solution/prevention more accurately.
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  #12  
Old 02-28-2012, 09:30 PM
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That's the answer for us pondbuilders but your forgetting the customer factor.
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  #13  
Old 02-28-2012, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by STL Ponds and Waterfalls View Post
That's the answer for us pondbuilders but your forgetting the customer factor.
That, the customer factor, is something that we all must deal with, but the pondbuilder must know the correct way to construct and maintain a balanced eco-system. How else can they adequately explain to a customer why their waterfall looks like a Chia pet on steroids and the proper corrective/preventive measures are not the use of weed killers, which is exactly what algaecides are, or questionable devices that are proven to wreak havoc on the food web and probably cause long-term irreversible damage to their fish. The customer should be informed of proper husbandry and told that if they choose to ignore these facts then they will reap what they sow, which will be a bumper crop of algae.
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  #14  
Old 02-29-2012, 09:52 AM
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Exactly, but you can only educate and hold ones hand so much. It's difficult to teach adults, and with the net it really get's hard.
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  #15  
Old 02-29-2012, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by STL Ponds and Waterfalls View Post
Exactly, but you can only educate and hold ones hand so much. It's difficult to teach adults, and with the net it really get's hard.
Ah yes, the internet.......where resides many inter-nuts. It is amazing at the amount of mis-information that can be found on the web. Some of it presented by the manufacturers themselves through stated half-truths. What this industry needs is a single source where an individual could find the true science-based facts.
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  #16  
Old 11-13-2012, 11:32 AM
turner_landscaping turner_landscaping is offline
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Well i thought id bring this subject back up. I had customer who started losing there large koi very quickly come to find out the had installed one. Unfortunalty they didnt set it right and it was set at the highest setting. The water tested off the charts for copper. The reason the homeowner set it high was to ensure of no algae growth however they were never told of the problems with copper and fish. This is one of the many reasons why i dont install or them recommend on features with life. Who has the responsible us as contractors who install them and recommend them or the homeowners when fish start to die? I just assume to not have the situation occur.
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  #17  
Old 11-13-2012, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by turner_landscaping View Post
Well i thought id bring this subject back up. I had customer who started losing there large koi very quickly come to find out the had installed one. Unfortunalty they didnt set it right and it was set at the highest setting. The water tested off the charts for copper. The reason the homeowner set it high was to ensure of no algae growth however they were never told of the problems with copper and fish. This is one of the many reasons why i dont install or them recommend on features with life. Who has the responsible us as contractors who install them and recommend them or the homeowners when fish start to die? I just assume to not have the situation occur.
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This is one subject that I feel should remain constantly active on this Forum.
How many occurrences similar to this go unreported, or the pond owner either assumes or is told that the fish have succumbed to a disease or pathgenic infection. In cases like this, I believe that the contractor is liable and is a prime target for litigation. The pond owner relies on the contractor/installer to be the 'Expert' in pond and fish husbandry and to make the correct recommendations regarding equipment and maintenance BMPs.
Until the manufacturers look beyond the 'bottom line' and begin practicing 'truth in advertising', these types of product issues will be ongoing.

One manufacturer of ionizers has changed their ad text from 'safe for fish' to "Can be used with fish and plants" (I suspect that this change in wording may have been advised by this company's legal department), other manufacturers have not and still claim that they are safe for fish. Even with this change in wording, the implication is still there that the use of an ionizer is safe for fish. which scientific fact and anecdotal observations have proven false and misleading.

This industry is becoming saturated with "Snake Oil" products and devices. It is, sadly and frustratingly, something that requires us as RESPONSIBLE contractors to be ever vigilant....... one of the perils of being an unregulated industry.
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  #18  
Old 11-13-2012, 01:00 PM
turner_landscaping turner_landscaping is offline
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O i agree its common sense if u take the time to think about. Would you ingest copper every day for life? Why would u think fish would be any different. They swim breathe and eat copper 365 days a year so they become a ticking time bomb and baby koi it hits faster. Its a great product for pondless just not fish ponds. My old company i work for had one on their display pond and one day a fish kill all the 1" babies were first to go. Bottom line copper is no joke in backyard ponds.
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  #19  
Old 08-17-2014, 04:08 AM
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no copper for natural ponds

Quote:
Originally Posted by headz77 View Post
Yes, as mentioned above, if the levels of copper get too high it can harm the fish. But, when monitored, it can be effective. I am not a scientist so I won't argue long term safety. Most of my koi clients have fish that are worth thousands of dollars- so they are very well monitored. We have had no issues.
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You haven't had any issues, yet. Metals accumulate in fish. It will take more time. In softer water metals harm fish faster. By the time it actually happens the blame will be laid on more recent events unless a biopsy is taken.
In natural ponds the metals adsorb to soils so this is actually a larger issue for garden ponds.

In reality this is just a way of chronically dosing copper.... as in copper sulfate. It sure is not natural as some claim.

Even worse yet is these things have been proposed by the manufacturer for domestic water supply. That is very irresponsible.
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