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  #291  
Old 06-13-2012, 02:36 PM
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cindyb cindyb is offline
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Guess this is a question for the attorney's. Toxic soil and the future if it is going to last 19 years in the ground.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/science...ts_toxic_soil/

Do we have to do a disclosure if we sell? Tell the neighbors our Imprelis is heading their way? This whole thing is making me sick thinking of what its doing to the soil, plants and animals. This article is kinda similar.

Quote:
Q: A company that installed a new sewer system on my property removed the existing topsoil and replaced it with fill that turned out to be contaminated. My questions are:

** Do I have to disclose this to a buyer if I sell my home?

** Will the contamination affect my property’s value?

** Is contamination a legitimate reason to seek a tax abatement?

A: You didn’t identify the substance that polluted your home’s soil, but whether it’s raw sewage or nuclear waste, your letter raises lots of serious issues.

As to your first query, individual home sellers DON’T as a general rule have to volunteer negative information to prospective buyers.

You can’t lie if a purchaser asks you a question, but state law doesn’t typically require you to voluntarily bring up bad news.

That said, this “don’t-ask-don’t-tell” policy has limits.

In one case that goes back several years, buyers seriously injured by a boiler that exploded managed to successfully sue the seller for not disclosing the device’s poor condition.

While your property’s contaminated soil isn’t likely to explode, it might pose a hazard to anyone who purchases your home.

The material could also hurt your neighbors, as any contamination might eventually spread to adjacent lots (and even get into the local groundwater system).

Apart from posing considerable health risks, this could create immense legal liability for both you and anyone who purchases your place. I can’t predict whether someone who buys your home without knowing about the contamination will later win a lawsuit against you.

But I can almost guarantee that the buyer will at least file suit, which means you’ll have to spend lots of time and money defending yourself in court.

So, my advice is to disclose any information that you’d want someone to disclose to you.

As to your second question, pollution will DEFINITELY hurt your property’s value. It’s hard to imagine any situation where polluted land will fetch as much as a nonpolluted parcel.

Does this mean you deserve a tax abatement?

I suppose it does – but given all of the other issues involved, your primary concern now should cleaning up the property.

I can’t emphasize strongly enough the importance of beginning a clean-up immediately. Your health risks, clean-up costs and potential liability will only increase over time.

I’d suggest starting by hiring an environmental engineer to assess the problem and estimate clean-up costs.

Next, contact the firm responsible for delivering the polluted topsoil (assuming you haven’t already done so).

Better yet, hire a lawyer who specializes in environmental issues. This person can recommend ways to both recover your costs and limit your future legal liability.


Tip of the Week

The Golden Rule (“Do unto others as you would have done to you”) probably offers home sellers better disclosure guidelines than state law does.

I always recommend disclosing any problems to a prospective buyer that you’d want a seller to disclose to you.

Source: redOrbit (http://s.tt/1aZw0)
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  #292  
Old 06-13-2012, 03:32 PM
Starbuy Starbuy is offline
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The above information from Cindy has excellent information, albeit very disturbing. Most counties will no doubt be getting a lot of Imprelis damaged property owners going before the tax appeals board to have their property taxes lowered due to the damage. I'm glad I've retained a good law firm. The future ramifications that may affect me finacially if I try to sell my home is something DuPont's direct resolution process does not address at all.

Here's a photo someone provided on an arborist site that I also belong to which shows Imprelis associated damage on a Honeylocust tree branch. Strange tumor like knots forming. This is similar to what the OSU extension office has shown as an example of the damage occuring on some deciduous tree branches. If you see this you'll have a better idea now what it has been associated with.
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  #293  
Old 06-13-2012, 03:39 PM
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cindyb cindyb is offline
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Bigger.

Kinda looks like the gall knots from little wasps.
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  #294  
Old 06-13-2012, 03:51 PM
Starbuy Starbuy is offline
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Here's a photo of a deformed viburnum bloom that never turned white this year (the whole hedge looks like this and this never happened in any year since it was planted). This is adjacent to the Imprelis treated yard. Something is happening to so many plants. As someone else described this situation "Imprelis is the BP oil spill for half the U.S. states" while another described it as "DuPont's Imprelis is the Katrina to our land".

Not sure if the photo appeared so I'll add it again.
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  #295  
Old 06-13-2012, 04:01 PM
Starbuy Starbuy is offline
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Having trouble uploading photos. Sorry, no viburnum photo.
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  #296  
Old 06-14-2012, 08:48 AM
rlitman rlitman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuy View Post
Dupont Imprelis may have a 19 year presence in affected soil according to the EPA registration:

The following figures were taken straight from the Imprelis EPA Registration:

At 365 days after application found at 70-90 cm in soil

-aerobic terrestrial half life 373 days

-anaerobic terrestrial half life 6932 days

6932 days is a half life of 19 years.
Wow, I'm just reading this thread, and it is indeed scary. Glad I'm not affected.

I'm just adding a reply to clarify a few misconceptions I've noticed along this interesting read.

Half life doesn't directly refer to how long it lasts in the soil.
In the case of the 19 year half life, it would mean that half of the chemical would remain after 19 years! After 38 years, a quarter of the chemical would still be found, and after 57 years, 1/8th would still be remaining.

So the half life is not a measure of a chemical's longevity, but rather its rate of decay. If you follow the math, it implies that some amount of the chemical will be around forever, however eventually it will be in concentrations below a concerning threshold, and after that, it will eventually be below a testable level.

That sounds really terrible, but it isn't quite that bad. That 19 years is in an anaerobic environment. While you may encounter an anaerobic environment in certain gardening situations (such as in the bottom of a compost pile), it would not be in a tree's root zone. A root zone must be aerobic for a plant to survive, so we can safely assume that the 1 year half life is the number you should be thinking about.

Again, to be clear, a 1 year half life does not mean that it will be gone in one year. It means that the chemical is reduced by half each year.

This is all assuming laboratory conditions. In the real world, I would expect some chemical to migrate. Perhaps through migration of water horizontally, or vertically. I'm not sure what happens to the chemical after uptake in plants. Some chemicals move through evaporation, although it appears that the vapor pressure of aminocyclopyrachlor is pretty low (this may not be true for its methyl ester formulation though).
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  #297  
Old 06-14-2012, 08:56 AM
rlitman rlitman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starbuy View Post
As many, including myself, see continued progression of damage spreading beyond the areas affected by Imprelis last year, is there any way to try to stop the spread besides digging an ugly trench? I realize using activated charcoal has been shown by some to provide little results in the soil when replanting and thus the new trees have died (as Imprelis migrated from the areas not dug up), but is it possible to spread it over a lawn to try to help neutralize the toxin from spreading to new areas? Can activated charcoal be watered in to lawns without hurting grass? Or is it really just a way to try to neutralize a toxin, but it can't block it?. . .
Activated charcoal doesn't neutralize toxins. It adsorbs them. Think of it as a kind of sponge. It has a large capacity for holding onto all sorts of organic chemicals with a pretty tight grip, and doesn't easily let go of them.
This makes it useful, because it can grab a chemical before a plant gets a hold of it, but it will slowly release that all back to the environment eventually.

The problem is that activated charcoal will adsorb everything that it encounters, and will itself have no more capacity to hold onto things in short order. That, and applying it directly to your lawn won't put it in the right place to soak up stuff that's down in the root zone. I just don't see how it would help, but I also don't see how it would hurt.
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  #298  
Old 06-14-2012, 09:06 AM
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cindyb cindyb is offline
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Hi Rlitman, sounds like you have a good scientific understanding of what's happening, thanks for weighing in. Question. My Weeping Willow is dying quickly and dropping its leaves. When the wind catching them, of course they head into the neighbors yards and gardens. Any chance they are carrying toxins? This tree had mutated leaves last summer (3 leaves growing into one).
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  #299  
Old 06-14-2012, 09:41 AM
rlitman rlitman is offline
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Just a good general scientific understanding. Nothing specific to your situation, or the chemicals in this thread.

That being said, DuPont has put a warning on the chemical's label to not use clippings as mulch, because the chemical is still "available" in the compost, so it seems to me that DuPont has answered this question. Yes, those leaves probably are carrying an active form of the herbicide.

Edit:
And because of that, the dying plants themselves will remove some of the chemical from your soil, helping it go away faster.

Last edited by rlitman; 06-14-2012 at 09:51 AM.
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  #300  
Old 06-14-2012, 10:19 AM
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cindyb cindyb is offline
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You are right, if its in the grass its in the leaves and all of the pine needles and pinecones are going in my fish ponds. Doing more than the 10% weekly water changes.
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