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Old 12-20-2002, 11:38 PM
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bubble boy bubble boy is offline
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Location: north Toronto
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bottom line is IF they ban them we have to adapt. i am against the idea of a ban but i do expect them to come into effect eventually.we should, i guess, be prepared.
"I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter."

Sir Winston Churchill
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Old 12-21-2002, 12:36 AM
Eirik Eirik is offline
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Location: Medford,Or Zone 7
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Hey Randy!
I could'nt care less what kind of car you drive...My point is what is best for the landscape not what is best for "your bottom line."
I'm talking about the benefits of organic fert vs chemical....And you are talking about environmentalists taking your rights away! Two completely different things!!!!!
Follow me here..........
Your car runs on gasoline........not horse manure or chicken crap right?
There is no alternative, for our cars and gas....(ya I know a guy in Finland runs his car on methane gas from cow just has'nt hit the stores yet!!!)
BUT! For our plants, for our grasses for our landscape there is an alternative to chemicals.....Bad analogy.
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Old 12-21-2002, 09:08 AM
mojo mojo is offline
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Location: canada
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Thanks for all the posts. I just wanted to see the opinions of my peers when they can remain fairly anonymous.

Here's another question: has anyone really checked into any of the big chem. companies so called "organic products"?

Did you know organic simply means carbon based? The chem. companies sure do!

Companies of this nature are always sending flyers and info on their new "organic products". I wouldn't recommend any of them 'cause you are still supporting these establishments.

Can anyone tell me at least one inert that is contained in any of the pesticides? And if so, has that been tested?

NO, because the inerts are trade secrets! Even the regulators don't know!

our biggest problem with natural pest control for chinch bugs has always been a challenge, until this past summer. We now have an immediate safe and 99% effective control that does not need any registration. Any guesses what it is?
We designed a gas powered shop vac. Works great! Digital microscope shows eggs, juveniles and adults. Simply water and apply diatomaceous earth after vaccuming. I'm anxious to see this method get torn apart be those who have not tryed it. I love pesamists- helps innovate ideas!


"the grass is always greener on the other side, problem is, you have to mow it twice as much" M.D. Smith
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Old 12-23-2002, 12:08 PM
SWD SWD is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Central Texas - West of Austin in the Hill Country
Posts: 989
just my two cent's worth.
Are you really aware how most 'organics' are made?
Do you understand the impact of corn gluten in soil when milled from genetically altered corn?
Are you aware that most organic fertilizers contain heavy metals and byproducts from the refuse they are made from?
As a previous poster stated, misapplication can result in abuse yet the consistently most grievious abuser of pesticides is the home owner. Dursban and Diazinon are still available to homeowners from Home Depot type stores, yet not to licensed professionals.
There will always be a need for synthetic chemical use as populations shift and mutate. That's nature.
And yes, the analogy made earlier is quite correct.
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Old 12-23-2002, 01:43 PM
f350 f350 is offline
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: mi
Posts: 424
diatomaceous earth , i looked into it.. $$$$, michigan needs a license to apply this product. sorry fella's but, argue all you want, but my bottom line is what i care about..
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Old 12-23-2002, 07:13 PM
Eirik Eirik is offline
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Location: Medford,Or Zone 7
Posts: 38
Hey SWD-
Do you even know what corn gluten does in the soil? Or are you simply repeating what someone else told you that it does?
Yeah, all those metals that are left in the soil by using natural products, are called trace minerals.....we need them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Something your chemical ferts don't have.
Are we both talking about organics?
I think it's more misinformation or misguided or MISINFORMED!
Next, how is and analogy right or wrong? They are either bad or good. That's like sayin one hypothetical situation is right and another is wrong!!!! They are both hypothetical! It's a freakin analogy! Comparing the analogy of cars and plants is not a good one because we have no alternative to gasoline for our cars, however we do have an alternative to chemicals on our plants.

Now, this is where you say.."but I don't know anything about organic material, but I do know that fertilizer is easier and all I have ever known!" And that is where I am fine with your opinion.

Get in make your money and get out. However in the meantime stop with your weak arguments about why and how chemical ferts are well tested and in the best interest of everyone involved....It makes you sound uneducated on the matter.
I imagine that no fert company supplying you or a golf course with their product is going to make you aware of the repercussions of their product. Can anyone list for me the cons of using organic except COST? Nope....but you can try

"You do ILL if you praise, but worse if you censure, what you DO NOT UNDERSTAND"
Leonardo da Vinci
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Old 12-23-2002, 10:05 PM
tremor tremor is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Stratford, CT
Posts: 1,476
I still haven't figured out why folks who hate pesticides ever bother to visit a forum designed to help professional pesticide applicators who come here in an attempt to further their knowlege.
Maybe I never will figure it out either. Perhaps they just like a good fight & find the security of a forum the only place they can muster the nerve to pick the fight. I don't know.

My Dear Eirik,

I am a member of one of those fertilizer & chemical companies. And from a business stand point, I couldn't care less what I sell to you. Organic or synthetic it doesn't matter to me. I'll work margin into it & stay in business either way.

In a way, I kind of like my 100% pesticide free customers business plans even more than the conventional LCO crowd. They spend more money per square foot, so who am I to complain. They buy a lot more fertilizer & grass seed. The freight bill is higher, I'll say that. But the added seed sales seem to offset that.

I won't get too involved in the technical benefits of organics. Humic Acid is good for soils. Period. Hey, I even use ogranic here at the house sometimes. But plants DON'T care how the chemical nutrients get to them. Whether from natural sources or synthetic, all the elements that plants use must eventually be converted to chemical forms before plants can use them. Now harm can be done by synthetic fertilizers if they aren't properly used. I'll admit that. But true professionals don't have these problems.

Please don't go into a tyrate about adding to percent OM in a soil test. Growing healthy grass, top-dressing & recycling clippings all contribute a lot more OM than ANY 50 lb bag of Mommy's Milk Organic Lawn Food ever could. The number of bags would be rediculous & cost prohibitive to correct a real OM deficiency. It is much cheaper & easier to fix these things with a load of composted manure or municipal leaf compost.

Please don't mistake natural organics as squeaky clean & environmentally friendly. Some are way more toxic than their commercial (synthetic) counterparts. Please take the time to educate yourself in the fine art of the discriminating the difference between good & bad natural organics. You may use one of the good ones. I hope you do. To be sure, check here:

Please navigate to this website. Click the first letter of the name of the natural organic or synthetic fertilizer you want to check out. Keep in mind that some small regional companies aren't listed here. We are. Most of the hiiters are. Please take a look. If you have trouble, send me an email & list what you use. They might be here under some parent companies name. I can help.

Please let us all know how your product of choice makes out. Some of the organcs are derived only from food by products or poultry manure & other "clean" sources. Others rely on human municipal sewage & don't rate favorably at all. You decide.

It's getting late. I don't really feel like getting into a long drawn out brawl about the responsible use of pesticides right now. Just digest this for now. We can play again another day.

Night all,
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Old 12-23-2002, 10:19 PM
SWD SWD is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Central Texas - West of Austin in the Hill Country
Posts: 989
Eirik, I am still awaiting an answer to the questions I asked of you.
either you will or will not answer, however, you have shown that you are not interested in debating facts, just tripe.
Mr. Tremor, I whole heartedly agree with your post!
Eirik, I am educated, to a degree beyond most agronomists.
However, I will echo other's sentiments - we are here to benefit from one another. If our comments offend you - that is life. Either deal with it or don't, I really don't care.
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Old 12-24-2002, 12:13 AM
Eirik Eirik is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Medford,Or Zone 7
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Wow, you guys ARE a lot more educated than I thought....You are right I am wrong...... next customer.....
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Old 12-24-2002, 01:36 AM
Randy Scott Randy Scott is offline
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Location: Wisconsin
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