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  #51  
Old 05-07-2012, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Duekster View Post
Ewing sells grass in Austin?

No but they are selling moisture products and they have demo plots set up at Cedar Park to show effect on different kinds of grass. It is thier opinion to go zoysia to replace St augustine and I have seen zoysia in some heavily shaded area before.
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  #52  
Old 05-07-2012, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by ed2hess View Post
It is thier opinion to go zoysia to replace St augustine and I have seen zoysia in some heavily shaded area before.
I have seen Bahia in some shady lawns too, it does not mean that it is a long term sustainable choice. IMHO Seville or other shade tolerant cultivators of St. Augustine are still the best choice for shady areas. This is why it is known as the shade grass of the south.
In terms of using less water I think the research I posted earlier proves that Zoysia is not an appropriate choice as a drought resistant alternative to SA if you still want a green lawn as it will use ounce for ounce the same amount of water.
I would think that topdressing lawns with a quality compost however might be a solution that you could sell your customers on for improving drought tolerance no matter their turf of choice????
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  #53  
Old 05-07-2012, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Landscape Poet View Post
I have seen Bahia in some shady lawns too, it does not mean that it is a long term sustainable choice. IMHO Seville or other shade tolerant cultivators of St. Augustine are still the best choice for shady areas. This is why it is known as the shade grass of the south.
In terms of using less water I think the research I posted earlier proves that Zoysia is not an appropriate choice as a drought resistant alternative to SA if you still want a green lawn as it will use ounce for ounce the same amount of water.
I would think that topdressing lawns with a quality compost however might be a solution that you could sell your customers on for improving drought tolerance no matter their turf of choice????
Sorry city of austin begs to differ......they are paying people to get rid of St Augustine. The moisture products are being widely used in Austin in addition to top dressing. The local paper has a big magaphone and people listen to that. St Augustine has tooooo many things working against it in our area. The low water is almost a minor one the decline and grub and chinch bugs and winter fungus and it goes on.
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  #54  
Old 05-07-2012, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by ed2hess View Post
The low water is almost a minor one the decline and grub and chinch bugs and winter fungus and it goes on.
We have gone/are going through the same thing here thanks to Empire Turfs marketing especially to home owners. What the end result will find if similar to here......Grubs still affect zoysia too, as do mole crickets, and even though chinch bugs do not prefer it, billbugs do. Winter Fungus????....wow that would be the last thing I would even consider a improvement about Zoysia if you are referring to Brown Patch as Zoysia seems to have just as much outbreak as SA and of course can take longer to recover.....maybe it is just a different environment there...don't know.

My city had the same bright idea roughly three years ago although it did not have the local media screaming it as Empire was doing a good enough job of that to the home owners. In a recent email I was informed that the city had gone against its previous thoughts about Zoysia and was replacing all that it had installed in the City.

The good news is I would bet that you guys will be replacing lots of Zoysia lawns in the future with good old Floritam St. Augustine.
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  #55  
Old 05-07-2012, 11:18 PM
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Empire Zoysia is much more drought tolerant than any SA lawn that I know. The Fungus issues are true with Zoysia but if home owners wouldn't water as much as they did with SA then the fungus issues would almost be nonexistent. As of right now I maintain 20 Zoysia lawns in 1 subdivision and none of them have had fungus issues. I do my own fertilizing and the home owner does weed treatments. 6 of the clients have PCO treatment and I will put my lawns up against them any day. Right now in this lack of rain time, they are watering only 1 day a week. That is all that is needed. The lawns are on the side of being a little dry but I would rather have them dryer than to much water.

Last edited by Johnagain; 05-07-2012 at 11:24 PM.
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  #56  
Old 05-08-2012, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Johnagain View Post
Empire Zoysia is much more drought tolerant than any SA lawn that I know. The Fungus issues are true with Zoysia but if home owners wouldn't water as much as they did with SA then the fungus issues would almost be nonexistent. As of right now I maintain 20 Zoysia lawns in 1 subdivision and none of them have had fungus issues. I do my own fertilizing and the home owner does weed treatments. 6 of the clients have PCO treatment and I will put my lawns up against them any day. Right now in this lack of rain time, they are watering only 1 day a week. That is all that is needed. The lawns are on the side of being a little dry but I would rather have them dryer than to much water.
Agreed.
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  #57  
Old 05-08-2012, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Landscape Poet View Post
We have gone/are going through the same thing here thanks to Empire Turfs marketing especially to home owners. What the end result will find if similar to here......Grubs still affect zoysia too, as do mole crickets, and even though chinch bugs do not prefer it, billbugs do. Winter Fungus????....wow that would be the last thing I would even consider a improvement about Zoysia if you are referring to Brown Patch as Zoysia seems to have just as much outbreak as SA and of course can take longer to recover.....maybe it is just a different environment there...don't know.

My city had the same bright idea roughly three years ago although it did not have the local media screaming it as Empire was doing a good enough job of that to the home owners. In a recent email I was informed that the city had gone against its previous thoughts about Zoysia and was replacing all that it had installed in the City.

The good news is I would bet that you guys will be replacing lots of Zoysia lawns in the future with good old Floritam St. Augustine.
I took a about 20 pieces of Zoysia and kept at my house and put it in late Dec. We had a very warm winter and the grass came out then more rain in Feb adn cool temp and you got it right....brown patch.
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  #58  
Old 05-08-2012, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnagain View Post
Empire Zoysia is much more drought tolerant than any SA lawn that I know. The Fungus issues are true with Zoysia but if home owners wouldn't water as much as they did with SA then the fungus issues would almost be nonexistent. As of right now I maintain 20 Zoysia lawns in 1 subdivision and none of them have had fungus issues. I do my own fertilizing and the home owner does weed treatments. 6 of the clients have PCO treatment and I will put my lawns up against them any day. Right now in this lack of rain time, they are watering only 1 day a week. That is all that is needed. The lawns are on the side of being a little dry but I would rather have them dryer than to much water.
Please link me to any University research that shows that Empire Zoysia is more drought tolerant than any SA! I won't be holding my breath. The facts, if you follow the research. is that Zoysia IN FACT IS NOT what you could call drought tolerant. In fact the research that I have read shows that root structure is not as deep as many SA's cultivators which right there should tell you something as well as it takes the shortest time to show signs of wilt (see root depth).

The fungal issues can be brought on by a variety of issues - and over watering is one of them that seems to bring it about for sure just as it would SA, over fertilizing with quick release seems to be another and I think this most likely is because Zoysia is already very thatch prone and the quick release just in turn increases the thatch in many cases and causes air circulation issues as well.
But even with the best care the fact remains that Zoysia is more prone to Brown Patch which is a soil born disease and you are not going to cure it but rather at best just surpress it. If you ever get a chance to attend Dr. Laurie Trenholm's seminar from the University of Florida, you will hear her state that the problem is such a problem on Zoysia that she has started calling Brown Patch "Zoysia Patch". And it does not matter if you are referring to Japonicas or Matrellas - the University of Florida still list Disease susceptibility as a concern.

But what do I know except how to read - I mean I do not maintain 20 Zoysia lawns.
Interesting Reading

ED, there is a bit in there talking about shade tolerance. It list TEXAS and ranks the cultivators according to there shade rating so that may be helpful for you in the future, but do take not that it also right above that says that the Zoysia cultivators are similar in shade tolerance to that of Floritam the worst of the SA cultivators for shady areas.

Now with all that said - the one turf to me that does maybe hold some hope is Seashore paspalum from the research as it showed the best results in several areas under drought conditions and of course can be irrigated with water straight from the ocean because of the amount of salinity that it can tolerate. Very interesting turf - anyone have lots of experience with it?
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Last edited by Landscape Poet; 05-08-2012 at 07:47 PM.
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  #59  
Old 05-08-2012, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ed2hess View Post
I took a about 20 pieces of Zoysia and kept at my house and put it in late Dec. We had a very warm winter and the grass came out then more rain in Feb adn cool temp and you got it right....brown patch.
We got nailed here with BP in late September last year, we got 12 or 13 inches of rainfall one weekend followed by cooler temps and blame....St. Augustine and Zoysia lawns were alive with BP.
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  #60  
Old 05-08-2012, 09:45 PM
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I want to thank all you guys for the vast amount of information I have learned in the last few weeks about zoysia. We definitely stick with our bermuda for sun and probably zoysia for shade only if customer insists. Other wise we continue with SA.
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