Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 05-01-2012, 11:12 AM
txirrigation txirrigation is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duekster View Post
Rumor has it builder contractors do things poorly so they get the service work later. They need that because they give away the installs. Rightly so since many builder installs are worthless.

Missing wire nuts, 3 valves in a 6 in round, poor zoning, spraying across walks, running in straight lines causing uneven pressures.

I make a decent living repairing track home installs and the good old fashioned loose connection.
The track home builder installers around here usually dont even run a repair truck. They dont want to go back, because it will be a warranty call and they will loose more money. Most of the time the H/O is so pissed off about their system the last thing they are going to do is call the original installer.

I get calls often (used to*) to repair systems that builders installed. The mainline is buried in the construction grade fill 3" from the foundation, every zone maxes out the 5/8 meter capabilities (good luck taking a shower with your system on). Fittings butted up to one another, etc...etc... A repair mans dream $$$$$


*there is a guy that recognized one of my install trucks from a picture on this site that called me up. Now I refer all repairs to him.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 05-01-2012, 11:18 AM
Mike Leary's Avatar
Mike Leary Mike Leary is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Port Angeles, Washington
Posts: 20,566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duekster View Post
Rumor has it builder contractors do things poorly so they get the service work later.
If that were true, there would, at least, be a method to their madness. In my experience, though, they simply don't know WTF they're doing.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 05-01-2012, 06:19 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 7,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Leary View Post
If that were true, there would, at least, be a method to their madness. In my experience, though, they simply don't know WTF they're doing.
Or care for that matter.

This is likely one of the reasons the on-site / in sight rule was enacted in Texas, plus the requirement for drawings and inspections.


I know of a guy that was running 5 to 6 crews ( subcontractors ) and paying them by the job. There was no regard for anything to impact pricing.
The builders paid $1425 per system regardless of the lot size.

I would spend more than that on materials on my installs. Decided not to chase installs and focus on repairs.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 05-02-2012, 10:08 AM
1idejim's Avatar
1idejim 1idejim is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 6,826
eddie, don't forget that the pro-800 direct connects to the wires the same way the 521 does. earth grounding for locating the wire path. common to black and valve to red for valve locating.

in fact this comes from page 12 of the progressive manualwhich explains how to properly connect the 521 locator
http://www.lashen.com/vendors/tempo/manuals/trblsht.pdf


LOCATING SOLENOID VALVES IS A 2-STEP PROCESS.
Step 1. Start at the clock by connecting the red transmitter lead
to the station wire leading to the subject valve and the
black lead to earth ground. Turn the transmitter on, adjust
the output to the highest level, assemble the receiver,
locate the path and start tracing the wire following the null.
The null will be present until you pass over a solenoid
valve, then the signal will become extremely strong. Mark
this spot. Check around this hot spot for a null leaving the
area. If the null continues, follow it and mark any additional
“hot spots”. (See Fig. 25)
If only one “hot spot” or valve is located, this will be the
valve in question.
Step 2. If more then one “hot spot” is found, mark them
and return to the transmitter and turn it off. Lift the black
lead form the ground stake and connect it to the common
wire.
Turn the transmitter on and set selector switch to
highest reading and return it to the first hot spot with the
receiver. Touch the tip of the receiver antenna to the
ground in the center of the first hot spot and set the sensitivity
knob to make it read near mid-scale. Now go to the
second spot and without touching the sensitivity knob,
check strength of the signal at each hot spot and determine
which, out of all of them, is the strongest signal. This is
the valve for the station wire you are connected to.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 05-02-2012, 07:29 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 7,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1idejim View Post
eddie, don't forget that the pro-800 direct connects to the wires the same way the 521 does. earth grounding for locating the wire path. common to black and valve to red for valve locating.

in fact this comes from page 12 of the progressive manualwhich explains how to properly connect the 521 locator
http://www.lashen.com/vendors/tempo/manuals/trblsht.pdf


LOCATING SOLENOID VALVES IS A 2-STEP PROCESS.
Step 1. Start at the clock by connecting the red transmitter lead
to the station wire leading to the subject valve and the
black lead to earth ground. Turn the transmitter on, adjust
the output to the highest level, assemble the receiver,
locate the path and start tracing the wire following the null.
The null will be present until you pass over a solenoid
valve, then the signal will become extremely strong. Mark
this spot. Check around this hot spot for a null leaving the
area. If the null continues, follow it and mark any additional
“hot spots”. (See Fig. 25)
If only one “hot spot” or valve is located, this will be the
valve in question.
Step 2. If more then one “hot spot” is found, mark them
and return to the transmitter and turn it off. Lift the black
lead form the ground stake and connect it to the common
wire.
Turn the transmitter on and set selector switch to
highest reading and return it to the first hot spot with the
receiver. Touch the tip of the receiver antenna to the
ground in the center of the first hot spot and set the sensitivity
knob to make it read near mid-scale. Now go to the
second spot and without touching the sensitivity knob,
check strength of the signal at each hot spot and determine
which, out of all of them, is the strongest signal. This is
the valve for the station wire you are connected to.
Hey Jim.

Thanks for the insight. What is the best way to find the good old fashions broken wire? What if the solenoid is a complete short with less than 5 ohms?

Thanks much. I know you sent me some info too. Need to find time to read, wide open here it seems.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 05-02-2012, 07:57 PM
CAPT Stream Rotar's Avatar
CAPT Stream Rotar CAPT Stream Rotar is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Cape Cod, Ma
Posts: 5,441
Dukester- what are you tracing with?

on the solenoid have you tried to put the black lead on common and red lead on valve wire?
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 05-02-2012, 08:56 PM
1idejim's Avatar
1idejim 1idejim is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 6,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duekster View Post
Hey Jim.

Thanks for the insight. What is the best way to find the good old fashions broken wire? What if the solenoid is a complete short with less than 5 ohms?

Thanks much. I know you sent me some info too. Need to find time to read, wide open here it seems.
a broken wire is identifiable by the hot spot and sudden signal loss. back up a few feet till you reacquire the signal null. move the receiver 6 inches from the path with the tip close to the ground. parallel the wire path maintaining the 6" separation, you will be receiving a peak signal response until you reach the end of the wire where the response returns to null. you are now at the end of the wire.

shorted solenoid is funny, sometimes you can find them during the wire trace, sometimes you can trace the common and earth ground the valve wire to isolate it. this does not mean you don't use an earth ground at the transmitter, the transmitter is also grounded if you do that you may find it as the path reverses on you. there are a few other ways but those have worked well for me
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 05-02-2012, 10:01 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 7,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPT Stream Rotar View Post
Dukester- what are you tracing with?

on the solenoid have you tried to put the black lead on common and red lead on valve wire?
521.

I will soon
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 05-02-2012, 10:05 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 7,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1idejim View Post
a broken wire is identifiable by the hot spot and sudden signal loss. back up a few feet till you reacquire the signal null. move the receiver 6 inches from the path with the tip close to the ground. parallel the wire path maintaining the 6" separation, you will be receiving a peak signal response until you reach the end of the wire where the response returns to null. you are now at the end of the wire.

shorted solenoid is funny, sometimes you can find them during the wire trace, sometimes you can trace the common and earth ground the valve wire to isolate it. this does not mean you don't use an earth ground at the transmitter, the transmitter is also grounded if you do that you may find it as the path reverses on you. there are a few other ways but those have worked well for me
When you have maifolds, I find that I often just start cleaning up commons as it has the most splices. Go back and check the ohms. If not cleared then I start over on the trace. Unfortunately many times the vaves are fairly close so it can get tricky

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 05-02-2012, 11:06 PM
1idejim's Avatar
1idejim 1idejim is online now
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: State of Jefferson
Posts: 6,826
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duekster View Post
When you have maifolds, I find that I often just start cleaning up commons as it has the most splices. Go back and check the ohms. If not cleared then I start over on the trace. Unfortunately many times the vaves are fairly close so it can get tricky

Thanks
i connect to all of the valves at one time when locating manifolds. using a tdr prolly helps me eliminate or avoid some of the issues like you are talking about.

another thing that you have to realize is that you normally hear about either my really tough jobs that drag on all day or a job where everything goes smooth and quick. i get the head scratchers along with the speedballs just like everyone else gets.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.com™ - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:43 PM.

Page generated in 0.08602 seconds with 8 queries