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  #21  
Old 04-24-2012, 07:59 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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You're making a mountain out of a mole hill and you're also straying from the original poster's question. I'm tryign to understand how you use this method. Let's go back to my first question:

How do you use ENR in a route based system?

You said that you "take into account all potential nitrogen (and nutrient) inputs, including ENR, in order to develop as best a management plan as possible."

1) Do you take into account what customers return clippings and what customers bag them? Do you treat customers differently based on returning or removing clippings? What if a customer bags one time, then returns clippings another time?

2) What target N budget number do you use? I'm assuming you begin with a total yearly N amount you think the plant needs to produce the conditions you desire, then subtract other N sources to determine how much fert you should apply. For what coverage area do you do this (each individual customer, each route, each ZIP, each city, each county, each neighborhood)?

3) I'm not sure that not accounting for ENR in the manner you describe is poor stewardship. Since you applied an estimate to a broad area, you risk underapplying to some areas and overapplying to others. Underapplying can lead to thin turf stands, which are not beneficial to the enivronment. Overapplying can lead to nutrient loss, which may not be beneficial to the environment. It seems to me that if you're going ot point to ENR as a way to be a good enviro steward, you would have to use it site by site, or its no better than anyone else's guess.
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  #22  
Old 04-24-2012, 10:42 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
How do you use ENR in a route based system?
If you can't figure it out skip you are in the wrong business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
1) Do you take into account what customers return clippings and what customers bag them? Do you treat customers differently based on returning or removing clippings? What if a customer bags one time, then returns clippings another time?
Yes, and you do understand what an estimate is .... right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
2) What target N budget number do you use? I'm assuming you begin with a total yearly N amount you think the plant needs to produce the conditions you desire, then subtract other N sources to determine how much fert you should apply. For what coverage area do you do this (each individual customer, each route, each ZIP, each city, each county, each neighborhood)?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
3) I'm not sure that not accounting for ENR in the manner you describe is poor stewardship. Since you applied an estimate to a broad area, you risk underapplying to some areas and overapplying to others. Underapplying can lead to thin turf stands, which are not beneficial to the enivronment. Overapplying can lead to nutrient loss, which may not be beneficial to the environment. It seems to me that if you're going ot point to ENR as a way to be a good enviro steward, you would have to use it site by site, or its no better than anyone else's guess.
My estimates are detailed to the hydrozone and spatially referenced.
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  #23  
Old 04-24-2012, 10:50 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Apparently you have no clue how to manage turf systems and are a horrible steward of the environment. You've also made it obvious that you know very little about nutrient management, since you can't even articulate what it is you're doing -- you just dance around questions about your methods and throw sarcasm to those who honestly try to understand your methods.

It is precisely because of the poor management and reckless nutrient application of guys like you that our industry gets a bum rap and that governments are bringing down onerous regulation on us all.

You talk a good game, but you've shown us here that you can't walk the walk.
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  #24  
Old 04-24-2012, 11:31 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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OK skip, I see we are done here. FYI, I have no desire to "articulate" anything to you, and if you want to learn how to do it, then go to college. I spent 10 years there myself and nearly 20 years in the field to understand how to apply that knowledge.

Last edited by Kiril; 04-24-2012 at 11:36 PM.
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  #25  
Old 04-25-2012, 08:22 AM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Hopefully your college will refund your money, since its obvious you don't understand soils, soil chemistry, or plant nutrition. You claim to have all this knowledge, but you can't tell anyone how you use it -- a classic sign of a BS'er.

"I do it just 'cause" and "I don't have to explain it to use it" are two sure-fire signs that you don't know what you're talking about.
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  #26  
Old 04-25-2012, 09:22 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Acting like a school yard bully is not going to get me to divulge my methodology. However, if you think you can wrap your mind around how the principles and practices of precision agriculture might be applied to landscapes, then you might begin to understand, but then I am not going to hold my breath either.
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  #27  
Old 04-25-2012, 04:00 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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I did ask you about how you apply this precision ag method in a route-based setting, and this was your response: "If you can't figure it out skip you are in the wrong asked business."

I asked how you account for the variation across your service area and how you account for the variation in customer practices. Your response was :

Apparently, you can't wrap your mind around how variations in agronomic conditions can impact precision ag in landscape situations.

If you are only using loose estimates and applying them to different situations without accounting for the conditions in those different situations, you're not using precision agriculture -- you're jsut shooting in the dark.
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  #28  
Old 04-25-2012, 04:24 PM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
I did ask you about how you apply this precision ag method in a route-based setting, and this was your response: "If you can't figure it out skip you are in the wrong asked business."

I asked how you account for the variation across your service area and how you account for the variation in customer practices. Your response was :

Apparently, you can't wrap your mind around how variations in agronomic conditions can impact precision ag in landscape situations.

If you are only using loose estimates and applying them to different situations without accounting for the conditions in those different situations, you're not using precision agriculture -- you're jsut shooting in the dark.
Enough of your bullshit assumptions on my methodologies and childish comments on my knowledge, education and experience skip. You don't have a clue about what I do, the methods I use or what variables I consider. Fact of the matter is, you probably wouldn't understand. Further, I will not discuss in depth any methods I use or disclose data/designs/models/etc... to you or anyone, end of discussion. I have stated this on many occasions on this forum, and if you don't like it, tough shiit. I have already stated in general how I do this, yet you can't seem to understand it. So since you are incapable of reading and understanding what I have already written, I suggest you keep your uninformed, ignorant, and unsubstantiated "opinions" to yourself.
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