Register free!
Search
 
     

The Green Industry's Resource Center


Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 07-20-2012, 10:13 AM
watersedge watersedge is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbia, KS
Posts: 5
Sometimes things catch up to you...

I know this is a couple months old, but I couldn't help but find it an interesting commentary on our modern "hide behind a screen" expectations when the OP discovered that his review of the Walker Super B got back to the dealer...and the reaction of most members of this forum.

The internet provides a great medium for transfer of information. At the same time, sometimes we hide behind our screens, thinking we have freedom from any responsibility for what we say. While I have no problem at all with the OP, or anyone else, giving their honest opinion on any topic, let's not get all sanctimonious and think our comments...whether negative or positive...are our own private property. When you post on the internet, you're posting for the world to see. You have no right to whine if someone sees your comments that you didn't expect. You trashed the Walker mower in your review. Do you think your dealer, the one you refer to as though you're "friends", would have preferrred that you come to him with your concerns instead of posting a permanent indictment of his product on the internet? Of course! Does he have a right to be upset with you? Of course! Does any Walker rep have a right to try to prevent this sort of thing from happening to protect their product line? Of course! Don't you think that virtually ALL lawncare manufacturers monitor these forums? Of course they do!

While we have every right to post what we feel or think online, we can't forget that when we trash a product, we're affecting people's livelihoods...whether manfacturers, distributors, or dealers. We may like the information, as users, but we shouldn't be surprised or upset to know that we're damaging others with negative comments...or expect them to be okay with it.

You stabbed your dealer in the back. You trashed his product. Does the fact that you did it on the internet make it okay? It makes it more comfortable, for sure...until what goes around comes around. From what you said, he was a great person to deal with and has done you nothing but good. Of course, he wasn't happy with you. You betrayed a relationship. Don't blame it on someone else. You did it. You assumed the internet was anonymous (which is definitely isn't!). You assumed your 'friend' wouldn't hear what you said about his product. If it's not something we would say to our friends and neighbors openly in public, then it definitely shouldn't be said in the most open and public place in the world...the internet.

We all selfishly want folks like the OP to give their honest opinions and feel free to do so...but we can't forget that there's a flip side to that coin. And we have no right to be upset at that flip side when it turns up. Nobody forces us to play this game. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But whether to play or not is ours to choose.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 07-20-2012, 11:19 AM
mtmower's Avatar
mtmower mtmower is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Western Montana
Posts: 1,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by watersedge View Post
I know this is a couple months old, but I couldn't help but find it an interesting commentary on our modern "hide behind a screen" expectations when the OP discovered that his review of the Walker Super B got back to the dealer...and the reaction of most members of this forum.

The internet provides a great medium for transfer of information. At the same time, sometimes we hide behind our screens, thinking we have freedom from any responsibility for what we say. While I have no problem at all with the OP, or anyone else, giving their honest opinion on any topic, let's not get all sanctimonious and think our comments...whether negative or positive...are our own private property. When you post on the internet, you're posting for the world to see. You have no right to whine if someone sees your comments that you didn't expect. You trashed the Walker mower in your review. Do you think your dealer, the one you refer to as though you're "friends", would have preferrred that you come to him with your concerns instead of posting a permanent indictment of his product on the internet? Of course! Does he have a right to be upset with you? Of course! Does any Walker rep have a right to try to prevent this sort of thing from happening to protect their product line? Of course! Don't you think that virtually ALL lawncare manufacturers monitor these forums? Of course they do!

While we have every right to post what we feel or think online, we can't forget that when we trash a product, we're affecting people's livelihoods...whether manfacturers, distributors, or dealers. We may like the information, as users, but we shouldn't be surprised or upset to know that we're damaging others with negative comments...or expect them to be okay with it.

You stabbed your dealer in the back. You trashed his product. Does the fact that you did it on the internet make it okay? It makes it more comfortable, for sure...until what goes around comes around. From what you said, he was a great person to deal with and has done you nothing but good. Of course, he wasn't happy with you. You betrayed a relationship. Don't blame it on someone else. You did it. You assumed the internet was anonymous (which is definitely isn't!). You assumed your 'friend' wouldn't hear what you said about his product. If it's not something we would say to our friends and neighbors openly in public, then it definitely shouldn't be said in the most open and public place in the world...the internet.

We all selfishly want folks like the OP to give their honest opinions and feel free to do so...but we can't forget that there's a flip side to that coin. And we have no right to be upset at that flip side when it turns up. Nobody forces us to play this game. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But whether to play or not is ours to choose.
Watersedge, first off, well written. While I agree with some of your points, some I don't. I do take responsibility for anything i write, say, or do. I am not, and was not at the time, in any way, under the impression that this or any web site is not viewed by everyone, that's the main point of a forum. I have spent hours on here myself, using it to look at reviews done by others on machinery to gleam some insight to the pros and cons of each and if I can contribute in some way to help the next person in my situation then to heck with the manufacturer.

I did not stab the dealer in the back. Did I say he's a terrible person or dealer? I did not betray a relationship. Did he ask me not to speak my mind or share with others my opinions on the product? I wrote the review about the product not the dealer. The dealership itself is as good as they come. When a dealer asks you, or offers you, or agrees to let you demo a product, they are giving it for the precise reason to allow you to test their merchandise fully so you can determine what the product is about. Has anybody ever told you you can demo a product but don't tell anyone you talk to about any negatives you find?! (or positives) They're also responsible for the repercussions of putting a product out there for testing. I wrote a review on only one of many products he sells. Prior to demoing it he was on me for years to try one. Many times I kindly rejected his offer with a reason about how the machine would probably not fit my business set up. It's all business. Your whining yourself saying that I'm damaging others with negative comments and affecting people's livelihoods...whether manufacturers, distributors, or dealers I'm not writing it for them. Shoot, all of them are and will tell you their machine is the best thing since sliced bread even when knowing it may not be for everyone and their situation just so they make the sale. It's all business for them as well! Do you think if they misrepresent a product to someone, regardless of the cost and it makes you loose income, work quality, clients, or time that they are worried that they hurt you directly? No. They're worried about selling the next unit. I'm writing it for people like you and me (assuming your a LCO and not in the business of promoting them yourself) that are trying to squeak out a living. For many of us, this is a huge investment, that we are going to have to live with for hrs and years to come, and will directly effect our efficiency and earnings to a large degree. I would and will say any of this to the dealer face to face or anyone else that is interested. There is nothing that I would not say that I have written on here to the dealer or the manufacturer directly.

What chafes me is the way someone whined behind the scenes without even debating any of it with me and it does also bother me the dealer called me out on it without even reading it themselves to see what I wrote and took the whiner's word and tone as his sounding board.

Using your thought process, if I find a positive fact about a competitor's unit and write or speak about it it would also damage Walker and may affect people's livelihoods...whether manufacturers, distributors, or dealers Who'd a thought.

By the way I am happy I did not go with Walker to this day. If Walker's product changes to meet my needs who knows some day I may own one. It may and must be the answer to many other operators needs. Just not mine at this time.

Last edited by mtmower; 07-20-2012 at 11:28 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 07-20-2012, 11:41 AM
mtmower's Avatar
mtmower mtmower is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Western Montana
Posts: 1,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmower View Post
Watersedge, first off, well written. While I agree with some of your points, some I don't. I do take responsibility for anything i write, say, or do. I am not, and was not at the time, in any way, under the impression that this or any web site is not viewed by everyone, that's the main point of a forum. I have spent hours on here myself, using it to look at reviews done by others on machinery to gleam some insight to the pros and cons of each and if I can contribute in some way to help the next person in my situation then to heck with the manufacturer.

I did not stab the dealer in the back. Did I say he's a terrible person or dealer? I did not betray a relationship. Did he ask me not to speak my mind or share with others my opinions on the product? I wrote the review about the product not the dealer. The dealership itself is as good as they come. When a dealer asks you, or offers you, or agrees to let you demo a product, they are giving it for the precise reason to allow you to test their merchandise fully so you can determine what the product is about. Has anybody ever told you you can demo a product but don't tell anyone you talk to about any negatives you find?! (or positives) They're also responsible for the repercussions of putting a product out there for testing. I wrote a review on only one of many products he sells. Prior to demoing it he was on me for years to try one. Many times I kindly rejected his offer with a reason about how the machine would probably not fit my business set up. It's all business. Your whining yourself saying that I'm damaging others with negative comments and affecting people's livelihoods...whether manufacturers, distributors, or dealers I'm not writing it for them. Shoot, all of them are and will tell you their machine is the best thing since sliced bread even when knowing it may not be for everyone and their situation just so they make the sale. It's all business for them as well! Do you think if they misrepresent a product to someone, regardless of the cost and it makes you loose income, work quality, clients, or time that they are worried that they hurt you directly? No. They're worried about selling the next unit. I'm writing it for people like you and me (assuming your a LCO and not in the business of promoting them yourself) that are trying to squeak out a living. For many of us, this is a huge investment, that we are going to have to live with for hrs and years to come, and will directly effect our efficiency and earnings to a large degree. I would and will say any of this to the dealer face to face or anyone else that is interested. There is nothing that I would not say that I have written on here to the dealer or the manufacturer directly.

What chafes me is the way someone whined behind the scenes without even debating any of it with me and it does also bother me the dealer called me out on it without even reading it themselves to see what I wrote and took the whiner's word and tone as his sounding board.

Using your thought process, if I find a positive fact about a competitor's unit and write or speak about it it would also damage Walker and may affect people's livelihoods...whether manufacturers, distributors, or dealers Who'd a thought.

By the way I am happy I did not go with Walker to this day. If Walker's product changes to meet my needs who knows some day I may own one. It may and must be the answer to many other operators needs. Just not mine at this time.

This is real strong being that it was your first post on LS. Spend some time on here and maybe you'll have a change of heart. There's a lot of good info. on here. Of course a lot must be taken with a grain of salt. My posts included.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 07-20-2012, 01:39 PM
watersedge watersedge is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbia, KS
Posts: 5
mtmower, I've been registered with Lawnsite for years. Interestingly, one of the reasons I joined back then was doing research to determine actual field (not demos) use of the Walker Super B back when it first came out. Back then, there wasn't enough info on them to cause me to buy one, so I stuck with Grasshopper. I've personally never used a Walker.

I think we're not seeing this from the same perspective. From your point of view you tell me that I'm "whining" by simply stating that posting negative comments on a forum damages others and affects people's livelihoods...whether manufacturers, distributors, or dealers. I'm not sure how that's "whining"...but if you disagree with that fact, then we're on different pages from the get-go. Negative comments on the internet are permanent...and of course they're damaging. How can they not be?

Also, I don't think there is any comparison between saying positive things and saying negative things. I'm not sure I can see the parallel your attempting to draw. I teach my kids to say positive things...not critical things. I realize that's somewhat different, but I think it's more similar that you're giving it credit. Speaking words that build up someone is not the same as speaking words that tear another down. I'm sorry. I just can't agree that pumping up the virtues of Grasshopper is the same as spreading the faults of Walker. I just think we have a bit of a different outlook.

OTO, as I stated originally, I agree wholeheartedly with you...I love the information...good or bad. That's why we come here. That's selfish me...to know the dirt so I can make a well informed decision. But all this freedom of speech and information does come at a cost. We post negative information at our peril. Of course, I can't say for sure, but I'd suspect that a Walker rep contacted your dealer to correct, if possible, any situation that caused a bad demo. After all, anyone and everyone researching the Walker Super B in Google will see your bad review. It's on the first page of Google and probably will be for a long time to come. Walker doesn't want that. YES, of course it affects Walker AND your dealer directly in a very dramatic way. The internet is a powerful medium.

I find it telling when you say, "What chafes me is the way someone whined behind the scenes without even debating any of it with me..." I agree with you and understand your viewpoint. But I'll bet that's what the dealer said of you too when he found out.

I have no problem with what you said or how you said it. Again...I'm glad you did...it helps me to know that maybe I want to stay away from Walker's Super B. Truth be told, I keep wondering if I should try one. Your information helps me to know that I probably shouldn't waste my money.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-20-2012, 04:11 PM
TriCountyLawn's Avatar
TriCountyLawn TriCountyLawn is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,518
Having read this whole thread for the first time I dont see why any jag would try to play narc about an honest review. Hopefully your dealer and you got it sorted out. People never surprise me.

Pretty crazy, Personally I wish they made these mowers with a GHS style hopper but a deck mounted blower. Basically a Grasshopper with the collection system.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-20-2012, 06:46 PM
GMLC's Avatar
GMLC GMLC is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 4,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by watersedge View Post
I know this is a couple months old, but I couldn't help but find it an interesting commentary on our modern "hide behind a screen" expectations when the OP discovered that his review of the Walker Super B got back to the dealer...and the reaction of most members of this forum.

The internet provides a great medium for transfer of information. At the same time, sometimes we hide behind our screens, thinking we have freedom from any responsibility for what we say. While I have no problem at all with the OP, or anyone else, giving their honest opinion on any topic, let's not get all sanctimonious and think our comments...whether negative or positive...are our own private property. When you post on the internet, you're posting for the world to see. You have no right to whine if someone sees your comments that you didn't expect. You trashed the Walker mower in your review. Do you think your dealer, the one you refer to as though you're "friends", would have preferrred that you come to him with your concerns instead of posting a permanent indictment of his product on the internet? Of course! Does he have a right to be upset with you? Of course! Does any Walker rep have a right to try to prevent this sort of thing from happening to protect their product line? Of course! Don't you think that virtually ALL lawncare manufacturers monitor these forums? Of course they do!

While we have every right to post what we feel or think online, we can't forget that when we trash a product, we're affecting people's livelihoods...whether manfacturers, distributors, or dealers. We may like the information, as users, but we shouldn't be surprised or upset to know that we're damaging others with negative comments...or expect them to be okay with it.

You stabbed your dealer in the back. You trashed his product. Does the fact that you did it on the internet make it okay? It makes it more comfortable, for sure...until what goes around comes around. From what you said, he was a great person to deal with and has done you nothing but good. Of course, he wasn't happy with you. You betrayed a relationship. Don't blame it on someone else. You did it. You assumed the internet was anonymous (which is definitely isn't!). You assumed your 'friend' wouldn't hear what you said about his product. If it's not something we would say to our friends and neighbors openly in public, then it definitely shouldn't be said in the most open and public place in the world...the internet.

We all selfishly want folks like the OP to give their honest opinions and feel free to do so...but we can't forget that there's a flip side to that coin. And we have no right to be upset at that flip side when it turns up. Nobody forces us to play this game. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. But whether to play or not is ours to choose.
Very well written. But all mtmower did was write an honest product review. No bashing was involved towards the dealer or Walker. I guess most people/manufacturers don't like honest product reviews...
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-20-2012, 06:54 PM
mtmower's Avatar
mtmower mtmower is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Western Montana
Posts: 1,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmower View Post
This is real strong being that it was your first post on LS. Spend some time on here and maybe you'll have a change of heart. There's a lot of good info. on here. Of course a lot must be taken with a grain of salt. My posts included.
The reason I commented on your post being your first is it shows it that way on your info in top right corner.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 07-20-2012, 07:29 PM
mtmower's Avatar
mtmower mtmower is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Western Montana
Posts: 1,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by watersedge View Post
mtmower, I've been registered with Lawnsite for years. Interestingly, one of the reasons I joined back then was doing research to determine actual field (not demos) use of the Walker Super B back when it first came out. Back then, there wasn't enough info on them to cause me to buy one, so I stuck with Grasshopper. I've personally never used a Walker.

I think we're not seeing this from the same perspective. From your point of view you tell me that I'm "whining" by simply stating that posting negative comments on a forum damages others and affects people's livelihoods...whether manufacturers, distributors, or dealers. I'm not sure how that's "whining"...but if you disagree with that fact, then we're on different pages from the get-go. Negative comments on the internet are permanent...and of course they're damaging. How can they not be?

Also, I don't think there is any comparison between saying positive things and saying negative things. I'm not sure I can see the parallel your attempting to draw. I teach my kids to say positive things...not critical things. I realize that's somewhat different, but I think it's more similar that you're giving it credit. Speaking words that build up someone is not the same as speaking words that tear another down. I'm sorry. I just can't agree that pumping up the virtues of Grasshopper is the same as spreading the faults of Walker. I just think we have a bit of a different outlook.

OTO, as I stated originally, I agree wholeheartedly with you...I love the information...good or bad. That's why we come here. That's selfish me...to know the dirt so I can make a well informed decision. But all this freedom of speech and information does come at a cost. We post negative information at our peril. Of course, I can't say for sure, but I'd suspect that a Walker rep contacted your dealer to correct, if possible, any situation that caused a bad demo. After all, anyone and everyone researching the Walker Super B in Google will see your bad review. It's on the first page of Google and probably will be for a long time to come. Walker doesn't want that. YES, of course it affects Walker AND your dealer directly in a very dramatic way. The internet is a powerful medium.

I find it telling when you say, "What chafes me is the way someone whined behind the scenes without even debating any of it with me..." I agree with you and understand your viewpoint. But I'll bet that's what the dealer said of you too when he found out.

I have no problem with what you said or how you said it. Again...I'm glad you did...it helps me to know that maybe I want to stay away from Walker's Super B. Truth be told, I keep wondering if I should try one. Your information helps me to know that I probably shouldn't waste my money.

I was using "whining" due to the fact that you pointed out you seemed to think that was how I was coming across.

I don't agree that a LCO on LS stating negatives or positives about a product is going to do damage, or effect them positively, to the point or you seem to think it could. Sure if I read a review on a product I'm interested in I may then have a mental list to check off when demoing a mower I'm interested in. I would hope no intelligent person would take any review as the final word. And if anything, the company or at least a good company, will take feed back and better their product. So in this sense it could and should be a positive. In this case I had someone call trying to find out if the demo came from this dealer, in a sense putting blame on them for pushing the demo and judging me for my written opinion negatively. I'm working with a company right now that is aggressively looking into positive and negatives about their product for this very reason and their focus is not to worry about a negative getting out to the public but rather seeking the negative and positive out to build a better unit faster.

I think where we differ is you see a product brand as a possible emotional relationship that is to be treated like a person instead a tool of the trade. I was not attacking anyone personally in my review. My intent is not to harm anyone writing a review on a piece of equipment. On the contrary it's quite the opposite. The intent was to help fellow LCO's that are interested in another operators experience and opinion. That is all. If all the reviews with any negative opinions were taken off of LS to keep from damaging others and affecting people's livelihoods...whether manufacturers, distributors, or dealers ,as you state, it would be a pretty empty and less helpful site.

Overall I understand what your saying and agree with it for the most part. We just differ in opinion on weather anyone should express a negative opinion on here and weather it is damaging and to what degree. I don't seem to be getting much warmth for all the positive things I said though.

Last edited by mtmower; 07-20-2012 at 07:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 07-20-2012, 08:46 PM
puppypaws's Avatar
puppypaws puppypaws is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Marshville,NC 28103
Posts: 7,756
A review is just what it says, "a review," you post truthfully what you saw and experienced, some will like what they read, some will not. What people like or do not like is insignificant, people will glean information they feel is useful to them personally, these are the ones that benefit, not the ones looking for any part of a review they can criticize.
__________________
Farm Mower
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 07-21-2012, 12:46 AM
mtmower's Avatar
mtmower mtmower is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Western Montana
Posts: 1,103
Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
A review is just what it says, "a review," you post truthfully what you saw and experienced, some will like what they read, some will not. What people like or do not like is insignificant, people will glean information they feel is useful to them personally, these are the ones that benefit, not the ones looking for any part of a review they can criticize.
Amen!!!!!!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:11 AM.

Page generated in 0.08544 seconds with 8 queries