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  #51  
Old 07-21-2012, 10:19 AM
watersedge watersedge is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puppypaws View Post
A review is just what it says, "a review," you post truthfully what you saw and experienced, some will like what they read, some will not. What people like or do not like is insignificant, people will glean information they feel is useful to them personally, these are the ones that benefit, not the ones looking for any part of a review they can criticize.
This makes no sense...and doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. We're talking about the effects of negative information posted on the internet and the validity of a manufacturer or dealer being upset by the negative press. What people like or do not like is insignificant? More money is spent on marketing than any other business line item. The United States alone spent $273 Billion on marketing in 2011...and $65 Billion in internet advertising in 2011. (IDC and MediaCast data) That's a lot of money to spend for something as "insignificant" as forming opinions of what people do or don't like.

I guess I'm not being clear. Guys, I love the reviews...good or bad. (How many times can I say that?) I love LS. The information...good or bad...is why many of us are here. But be practical. A "review" is a nothing more than a form of marketing. It's designed to provide information that is used to form opinions. Nothing more. Period. In fact, you guys probably have seen shill reviews before...fake reviews from people with vested interests. It's a common form of internet marketing. Information, good or bad, that is posted somewhere for others to see is simply marketing. The internet is the first place most people go these days to consume their marketing. Do a search for "walker super bee opinion"...this thread comes up on page one, second result. The fact that LS is a considered an "expert resource", not only in the public eye, but also in Google's algorithm, makes any information here even more credible and actionable.

When we post a positive review, it's great marketing (and free, usually) for the product. When we post a negative review, it's great marketing for the competitor's product. The primary reason we like to read reviews is because we "try" products through other people because we're unable or unwilling to form our own opinion by trying the product out ourselves. After all...the only opinion that really counts is our own. So...when we look at reviews or opinions of others, we're using their experience as a substitute for our own...most often to make a buying decision.

Of course companies want to know negatives about their product. I disagree that they want to know them by having them broadcast to the world in a permanent fashion. That's common sense. Nobody, and I mean nobody, prefers that their dirty laundry be out for the world to see. "Yeah, tell the world about our product failures. That's helpful to our bottom line. Sign us up for that!" Really?

Folks, I won't belabor this anymore. I can see that I'm clearly outnumbered here. I will close with reiterating that I'm all for what you said, mtmower. I'm all for you providing the information, good or bad. All I wanted to point out was the reality of the situation that seemed lost on everyone when someone acted upon the negative review. No company wants their reputation damaged...including yours or mine. Negative marketing does just that. We shouldn't be surprised whenever some form of damage control by someone with a vested interest takes place. I completely understand that the original intent was to simply provide useful information, and was not meant to harm Walker or the dealer. I get it. Useful information was indeed provided. Your review was honest, awesome, and helpful to me and no doubt thousands of others. But it's naive to think that Walker as a company wasn't damaged. You marketed against them. It's that simple.

Just remember, the reason most of us look at reviews is to have our opinions formed for us. It saves us the time of actually forming our own. I do it. You do it. We all do it. That makes reviews, the internet version of the gold standard 'word of mouth' advertising, some of the most effective marketing on the planet...for better or worse.

I've said all I can say. I'm done! Have at it, guys.
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  #52  
Old 07-21-2012, 10:51 AM
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TriCountyLawn TriCountyLawn is offline
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I don't see where anyone aired "dirty laundry".....pretty goofy. But your first post on this board and the fact that you are rubbed the wrong way by this review leads me to speculate your involvement in this whole thing.....Just sayin. Good luck.
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  #53  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:25 AM
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mtmower mtmower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watersedge View Post
This makes no sense...and doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. We're talking about the effects of negative information posted on the internet and the validity of a manufacturer or dealer being upset by the negative press. What people like or do not like is insignificant? More money is spent on marketing than any other business line item. The United States alone spent $273 Billion on marketing in 2011...and $65 Billion in internet advertising in 2011. (IDC and MediaCast data) That's a lot of money to spend for something as "insignificant" as forming opinions of what people do or don't like.

I guess I'm not being clear. Guys, I love the reviews...good or bad. (How many times can I say that?) I love LS. The information...good or bad...is why many of us are here. But be practical. A "review" is a nothing more than a form of marketing. It's designed to provide information that is used to form opinions. Nothing more. Period. In fact, you guys probably have seen shill reviews before...fake reviews from people with vested interests. It's a common form of internet marketing. Information, good or bad, that is posted somewhere for others to see is simply marketing. The internet is the first place most people go these days to consume their marketing. Do a search for "walker super bee opinion"...this thread comes up on page one, second result. The fact that LS is a considered an "expert resource", not only in the public eye, but also in Google's algorithm, makes any information here even more credible and actionable.

When we post a positive review, it's great marketing (and free, usually) for the product. When we post a negative review, it's great marketing for the competitor's product. The primary reason we like to read reviews is because we "try" products through other people because we're unable or unwilling to form our own opinion by trying the product out ourselves. After all...the only opinion that really counts is our own. So...when we look at reviews or opinions of others, we're using their experience as a substitute for our own...most often to make a buying decision.

Of course companies want to know negatives about their product. I disagree that they want to know them by having them broadcast to the world in a permanent fashion. That's common sense. Nobody, and I mean nobody, prefers that their dirty laundry be out for the world to see. "Yeah, tell the world about our product failures. That's helpful to our bottom line. Sign us up for that!" Really?

Folks, I won't belabor this anymore. I can see that I'm clearly outnumbered here. I will close with reiterating that I'm all for what you said, mtmower. I'm all for you providing the information, good or bad. All I wanted to point out was the reality of the situation that seemed lost on everyone when someone acted upon the negative review. No company wants their reputation damaged...including yours or mine. Negative marketing does just that. We shouldn't be surprised whenever some form of damage control by someone with a vested interest takes place. I completely understand that the original intent was to simply provide useful information, and was not meant to harm Walker or the dealer. I get it. Useful information was indeed provided. Your review was honest, awesome, and helpful to me and no doubt thousands of others. But it's naive to think that Walker as a company wasn't damaged. You marketed against them. It's that simple.

Just remember, the reason most of us look at reviews is to have our opinions formed for us. It saves us the time of actually forming our own. I do it. You do it. We all do it. That makes reviews, the internet version of the gold standard 'word of mouth' advertising, some of the most effective marketing on the planet...for better or worse.

I've said all I can say. I'm done! Have at it, guys.

watersedge, your point is not lost on me. I understand your just saying a person must be responsible for anything you say, write, or do and depending what those things are there may be repercussions like anything in life and that you believe, along with the guy who ran to the dealer, that I deserve what happened to me and that I damaged the Walker image. To each there own.

I guess I consider marketing to be a situation where there is a vested interest in the product being sold and usually the marketer profits buy way of selling more of their product or being financially compensated for helping to do so.

Again my intent is not to effect sales of the Walker if it did or will and I'm not getting paid for anything I'm doing on LS.
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  #54  
Old 07-21-2012, 12:19 PM
watersedge watersedge is offline
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Columbia, KS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriCountyLawn View Post
I don't see where anyone aired "dirty laundry".....pretty goofy. But your first post on this board and the fact that you are rubbed the wrong way by this review leads me to speculate your involvement in this whole thing.....Just sayin. Good luck.
It figures some joker would come up with this eventually, just to throw that into the mix. Tell you what, when you find a post of mine that defends Walker's mowers or even says anything good about Walker at all...or any hint of anything to support the idea that I have ever even been on a Walker (which I haven't!), then you come back and accuse me or raise questions about my integrity. Otherwise, you're just stirring the pot with no purpose by making untenable comments like this.

Here's an idea. Why don't you read what you're commenting about before adding your well thought, constructive opinion? For starters, pay particular attention to the point I made over and over that my concern wasn't with the review itself, then go from there. In fact, I never addressed the review itself in any way whatsoever.

Just sayin.


FYI: "Dirty laundry" is a euphamism for faults, problems, errors, "bad stuff", etc...in other words negative things. I'll try not to use literary devices in the future so as not to appear 'goofy' to those who don't understand. Sorry.
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  #55  
Old 07-21-2012, 12:28 PM
watersedge watersedge is offline
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Location: Columbia, KS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtmower View Post
you believe, along with the guy who ran to the dealer, that I deserve what happened to me and that I damaged the Walker image.
mtmower,

Please don't misunderstand...I don't know what happened to you, exactly, and wouldn't want to say that you deserved it. That's not my point or my place.
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  #56  
Old 07-21-2012, 12:37 PM
TriCountyLawn's Avatar
TriCountyLawn TriCountyLawn is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 1,519
Yer write , Butt itz sore iss strannge thert u havin ben er memberr frome 2009 an thiss shiz bringes U outa tha wood werks nowe ?

lol, its just mowers man. I'm sure you have read some of the Hustler reviews here ouch.....

And by modern standards I am a few thousands rounds of ammo short to be considered a "joker"
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  #57  
Old 07-21-2012, 01:01 PM
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JimQ JimQ is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Beatrice, NE
Posts: 1,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by watersedge View Post
...Folks, I won't belabor this anymore. I can see that I'm clearly outnumbered here...
You may be out numbered but you're not alone.

I've been an all sides of this. I've been a consumer, I've worked as an Engineer for a major OEM that produces all types of outdoor power equipment and now I own an outdoor power equipment service and repair shop/dealership.

You hit the nail squarely on the head and I agree with your comments 100%

The problem is, we discuss mowers around here.... anything deeper than mowers... well

And to further your point, I submit this as a PRIME example. Fortunately for the OEM, this one went the other way.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=375000

If anyone cares to discus this further, we should probably start a new thread and leave this one to the Walker Super B.

Q

Last edited by JimQ; 07-21-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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  #58  
Old 07-21-2012, 02:46 PM
puppypaws's Avatar
puppypaws puppypaws is online now
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Marshville,NC 28103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watersedge View Post
This makes no sense...and doesn't have anything to do with this discussion. We're talking about the effects of negative information posted on the internet and the validity of a manufacturer or dealer being upset by the negative press. What people like or do not like is insignificant? More money is spent on marketing than any other business line item. The United States alone spent $273 Billion on marketing in 2011...and $65 Billion in internet advertising in 2011. (IDC and MediaCast data) That's a lot of money to spend for something as "insignificant" as forming opinions of what people do or don't like.

I guess I'm not being clear. Guys, I love the reviews...good or bad. (How many times can I say that?) I love LS. The information...good or bad...is why many of us are here. But be practical. A "review" is a nothing more than a form of marketing. It's designed to provide information that is used to form opinions. Nothing more. Period. In fact, you guys probably have seen shill reviews before...fake reviews from people with vested interests. It's a common form of internet marketing. Information, good or bad, that is posted somewhere for others to see is simply marketing. The internet is the first place most people go these days to consume their marketing. Do a search for "walker super bee opinion"...this thread comes up on page one, second result. The fact that LS is a considered an "expert resource", not only in the public eye, but also in Google's algorithm, makes any information here even more credible and actionable.

When we post a positive review, it's great marketing (and free, usually) for the product. When we post a negative review, it's great marketing for the competitor's product. The primary reason we like to read reviews is because we "try" products through other people because we're unable or unwilling to form our own opinion by trying the product out ourselves. After all...the only opinion that really counts is our own. So...when we look at reviews or opinions of others, we're using their experience as a substitute for our own...most often to make a buying decision.

Of course companies want to know negatives about their product. I disagree that they want to know them by having them broadcast to the world in a permanent fashion. That's common sense. Nobody, and I mean nobody, prefers that their dirty laundry be out for the world to see. "Yeah, tell the world about our product failures. That's helpful to our bottom line. Sign us up for that!" Really?

Folks, I won't belabor this anymore. I can see that I'm clearly outnumbered here. I will close with reiterating that I'm all for what you said, mtmower. I'm all for you providing the information, good or bad. All I wanted to point out was the reality of the situation that seemed lost on everyone when someone acted upon the negative review. No company wants their reputation damaged...including yours or mine. Negative marketing does just that. We shouldn't be surprised whenever some form of damage control by someone with a vested interest takes place. I completely understand that the original intent was to simply provide useful information, and was not meant to harm Walker or the dealer. I get it. Useful information was indeed provided. Your review was honest, awesome, and helpful to me and no doubt thousands of others. But it's naive to think that Walker as a company wasn't damaged. You marketed against them. It's that simple.

Just remember, the reason most of us look at reviews is to have our opinions formed for us. It saves us the time of actually forming our own. I do it. You do it. We all do it. That makes reviews, the internet version of the gold standard 'word of mouth' advertising, some of the most effective marketing on the planet...for better or worse.

I've said all I can say. I'm done! Have at it, guys.
You are talking in circles, you love the review but hate to see what you call positive or negative marketing result from any comments about the product. Let the companies take care of themselves with whatever marketing gimmicks they may develop.

I was actually paid money from a class-action lawsuit against mower engine companies for false advertising; they were elevating their profit margin by charging their customers for HP, they were not receiving. You may call this positive marketing; I contend as the class-action lawsuit stated it was false advertising. This advertising in the form of a mislabeled HP rating on a mower engine was done for the purpose of stealing from the buying public, of which the plan worked perfectly. These companies knew a class-action lawsuit could be settled for pennies on the dollar, and definitely worth the risk when adding above customary profits.

Let's not worry about mower companies, but instead advocate that people provide honest information based on experience of operation. This is what people want to read as a review, not information they feel is an attempt to sway them for or against a mower. We then let people decide for themselves what they feel is accurate or biased information while letting the mower companies take care of themselves.

I have seen over the years that problems pointed out by end users have brought about positive change. When problems are never brought to a companies attention, it is somewhat likely no change for the better will occur, and the best way to gain a company's concern is through comments in a forum they realize thousands will read.
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  #59  
Old 07-21-2012, 03:15 PM
mtmower's Avatar
mtmower mtmower is offline
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Western Montana
Posts: 1,111
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimQ View Post
You may be out numbered but you're not alone.

I've been an all sides of this. I've been a consumer, I've worked as an Engineer for a major OEM that produces all types of outdoor power equipment and now I own an outdoor power equipment service and repair shop/dealership.

You hit the nail squarely on the head and I agree with your comments 100%

The problem is, we discuss mowers around here.... anything deeper than mowers... well

And to further your point, I submit this as a PRIME example. Fortunately for the OEM, this one went the other way.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=375000

If anyone cares to discus this further, we should probably start a new thread and leave this one to the Walker Super B.

Q
Jim I've posted on this thread you give as a example myself and not all of my comments were 100% positive but I had no ill will or negative feed back from it. As a matter of fact the very opposite. Since you used this thread as an example, Gravely, has contacted me and others directly to clarify issues and to offer remedies and if they didn't have one at the time they actively attack them and come up with solutions. They even have a feed back thread for anyone as a sticky on here. I'm sure they like hearing good things about their product like everyone would, but more often then not, the comments can be negative. They're not shying away from it or pointing fingers, they embrace it and use it as a free tool to improve the company. Where could a manufacturer get better free feed back then directly from the users from around the world.

You've given a lot of info on here as well, which has been very helpful to me especially with my most recent purchase. You also pointed out what you felt were strong and weak points of a product you know well on here. You've answered many questions and IMO have been honest if there was a place the product could be improved upon. Have you or the manufacturer that you worked with suffered negatively as a result of your opinion or facts that you've given? I actually regard a company/manufacturer that has a spokes type person on here with actual knowledge and honesty as one that has gone the second mile and it places them/you above the competition even though there may be questions asked or opinions made that could be seen as negative instead of a way to better the product, using this media as a sounding board. Dennis at Oregon is another prime example of a company willing to take the time and be proactive on the site. My hats off to you and them.

To summarize, I tested several units, went out of my way to take pics and attempted to write a fare review from my stand point of 13 years of commercial lawn care, to help other potential buyers make a somewhat more educated decision, so they then could review the product with some insight from a outside source other than the manufacturer or dealer. This was in hopes of them making a decision that would aid them in being in a more profitable business in both time and money. This was, has, and is being done by others and I found it very helpful to me. I was only trying to do my part in return and help others as well. If I stepped on toes in the process well I apologize.

Last edited by mtmower; 07-21-2012 at 03:20 PM.
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  #60  
Old 07-21-2012, 05:59 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
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I liked the review. Having demo's the Super B myself, I found that it rang pretty true.

Clearly it is a very good mower but not conventional. My guys did not like it at all because it was so different.
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