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  #61  
Old 06-18-2012, 12:12 AM
David Gretzmier David Gretzmier is offline
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wait- there is someone else in the world that does not like LED's? Look james- I am not alone!

The greenish hue you speak of has to do with the phosphor coating on the LED lens itself. all high power LED's come from a very bright blue LED probably starting around 6-8000k color temp. They then coat that LED with a yellow phosphor or stain to create a warm white color. the problem again is getting it just right, and just right over a really long period of time. but we all know yellow and blue make green. The other element of this equation is how long and to what degree of degredation happens over a 25-50000 hour life of that yellow phosphor. everyone hopes it does very well, in spite of the problems shown in my testing and most other folks from fixtures 3-4 years back.

but I find the color thing was so bad back then when LED's first started coming around, that when it got close folks were happy enough.

I have to say for my eyes 2700k to me is not a warm orange but a whitish yellow with no green. I would say a 5000 hour mr-16 at 11-11.3 volts is just about perfect. The Volt LED's I am currently testing are probably closer to 3200k, or a a tradtiional halogen at 12-12.5 volts.
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Old 06-19-2012, 08:59 PM
Relleum Relleum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Gretzmier View Post
wait- there is someone else in the world that does not like LED's? Look james- I am not alone!

The greenish hue you speak of has to do with the phosphor coating on the LED lens itself. all high power LED's come from a very bright blue LED probably starting around 6-8000k color temp. They then coat that LED with a yellow phosphor or stain to create a warm white color. the problem again is getting it just right, and just right over a really long period of time. but we all know yellow and blue make green. The other element of this equation is how long and to what degree of degredation happens over a 25-50000 hour life of that yellow phosphor. everyone hopes it does very well, in spite of the problems shown in my testing and most other folks from fixtures 3-4 years back.

but I find the color thing was so bad back then when LED's first started coming around, that when it got close folks were happy enough.

I have to say for my eyes 2700k to me is not a warm orange but a whitish yellow with no green. I would say a 5000 hour mr-16 at 11-11.3 volts is just about perfect. The Volt LED's I am currently testing are probably closer to 3200k, or a a tradtiional halogen at 12-12.5 volts.
This is exactly the kind of technical information I was after, and helps reinforce my inclination to just exchange the Volt Infiniti for the MR-16 top dogs. What bulbs specifically do you recommend that are good 5000 hour mr-16s? I'm hoping that I can get away with the majority being not more than 20watts, since I have 9 up lights and 7 path lights (10 watt each) on a 300 watt transformer. It's cutting very close!
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  #63  
Old 06-19-2012, 09:28 PM
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starry night starry night is online now
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Ahhhh, a match made in lighting heaven: Relleum and David.
Just teasing, David. Your contributions on this forum are invaluable.
But it looks to me like Relleum was merely looking for someone to backup his opinion of LEDs based on his limited experience with them. David, I think your main reservation concerns longevity of LEDs or the lack of it. Relleum, your hangup seems to be color. You should really take a look at other LEDs, maybe those from Brilliance, Illumicare, or Unique.
You either need LEDs or a bigger transformer for halogen with the array of fixtures you listed.
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  #64  
Old 06-19-2012, 11:15 PM
bcg bcg is offline
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I will say that if your concern with LED is color only, you really should get halogen MR16's from several manufacturers and shine them all on a white wall. You'll be amazed at the difference (and the hot spots and crappy edges), or at least I was. It's really difficult to compare any LED to a halogen MR16 when there is no "standard" to speak of in the halogens.
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  #65  
Old 06-19-2012, 11:56 PM
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INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting is offline
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I will say that if your concern with LED is color only, you really should get halogen MR16's from several manufacturers and shine them all on a white wall. You'll be amazed at the difference (and the hot spots and crappy edges), or at least I was. It's really difficult to compare any LED to a halogen MR16 when there is no "standard" to speak of in the halogens.
Bernie speaks the truth! Having participated in the AOLP LAMP program for the past couple of years, I have seen this first hand with a wide variety of both halogen and LED lamps. There simply is no reference or standard.

My best advice is to find a line of LED products (be they lamps or fixtures) that you are happy with, and that meet all of your application requirements and stick with them. It is far better to have all of your light sources with a similar intensity, beam pattern and colour than it is to start mixing and matching from various manufacturers. That is when things start to get really unsettling.
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  #66  
Old 06-20-2012, 10:01 AM
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Lite4 Lite4 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relleum View Post
This is exactly the kind of technical information I was after, and helps reinforce my inclination to just exchange the Volt Infiniti for the MR-16 top dogs. What bulbs specifically do you recommend that are good 5000 hour mr-16s? I'm hoping that I can get away with the majority being not more than 20watts, since I have 9 up lights and 7 path lights (10 watt each) on a 300 watt transformer. It's cutting very close!
Buy GE Constant color lamps with a cover glass, they are by far and away the best halogen lamps on the market for color and longevity of life. Ushio will be a close second, however their reflector does degrade over the lifespan of the lamp and lumen output will diminish where the GE's will not.
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  #67  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:22 AM
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JimLewis JimLewis is offline
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Wait! What happened to Firefly??? Now I won't hardly recognize you except for the fern picture!
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  #68  
Old 06-20-2012, 11:36 AM
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Lite4 Lite4 is online now
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Hey Jim,

Yes firefly is gone, has been for 3+ years. As many of you know I have been working for others for the past 3 years since I made my trek across country. 10 days ago out of the blue, myself and the Landscape architect I shared an office with got our pink slips and were shown the door due to budget cutbacks from the company I was working for. Well, I had been planning on getting something started back up, but intil 10 days ago I was going to wait until next spring or summer. Things got thrown into high gear all of a sudden and plans have changed. Instead of relying on someone else for my job security, I am going back out on my own so if I go hungry and am out of work it will be my own fault. The climate for lighting here is terrific and I already have 1 month of work I sold in the last week. The company I was with felt bad about cutting us loose and in return gave me all of the past customers for service work and all the new ones I had in bid and prospect which was nice. My website should be completed by the first of next week. It is not an ideal situation to be starting up this late in the season, but that just means I have to get busy.
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  #69  
Old 06-20-2012, 12:44 PM
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I think the original thread has run its course, so I don't mind posting this personal message:

Tim, I was always surprised that you were working for someone else. With all you have on the ball, you'll do great out on your own again. Please email me with your new email address.
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  #70  
Old 07-23-2012, 06:47 PM
Relleum Relleum is offline
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So I exchanged my LEDs for Top Dawg MR16 fixtures. The color is very natural now, and I'm definitely happier as a result. But of course, I have new problems now. I'm currently at 256 of the 300 watt capacity of my transformer, so any more lights will require a new transformer. Also, the Volt toroidal core transformer doesn't officially support dimming, and now I'm in a situation where dimming the house and soffit lights create a color mismatch with the landscape lighting. So either run everything at 100% to match color, run just landscape at 100% and house lights "close enough", or take chances with dimming the transformer to match. It's so temping, since dimming seems to work pretty well on the surface. I have no idea if it will reduce the lifespan of the transformer, or bulbs themselves.

Sigh. Why can't transformers dim?
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