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  #21  
Old 06-14-2012, 07:20 AM
BradLewisLawnCare BradLewisLawnCare is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Albany NY
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One big question. Do companies bring multiple people so they don't have to buy more equipment? Seems like a lot of ideas were that people want to get through the mowing lists quicker. I am thinking 10 years down the road. how many machines do you have to buy over that time to mow for 10 years. What if you cut the usage of those machines in half now so they last longer. Any idea how that might affect the mowers?

I like the safety concern of being stuck and the moral idea.
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  #22  
Old 06-14-2012, 08:32 AM
32vld 32vld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agent walker View Post
why would you turn a new guy loose on a $15,000 mower if he can't run a $300 weed eater??
If he can drive a car he can drive a mower. He can drive straight down the road and not hit anything he can mow staight lines.

This thing raises and lowers the deck, that engages the blade, watch out for and don't mow any debris.

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  #23  
Old 06-14-2012, 08:44 AM
32vld 32vld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
We're not talking opinions, we're talking facts. Time studies have shown over and over and over that 1 man crews are more efficient that 2 or 3 man crews. FOR MOWING ONLY. I did it. I don't run CLIP anymore so I can't get my proof, but I did it and consistently made more dollars per hour with 1 man than 2 man crews.
Initially anyone will make more money working solo because they don't have to pay a second salary out of their pocket.

Keeping all the profit is not the same as being more efficient or making the most money.

There are only so many hours in a week that a solo can work and bill for.

The phrase economy of scale is why large corps as Brickman makes more profit for their owners. They're making a percentage off of every employee they have. What they earn off the back's off their employees is more then you or any other LCO can make working solo.

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  #24  
Old 06-14-2012, 09:01 AM
32vld 32vld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradLewisLawnCare View Post
duekster,

Per man hour. doing $400 in lawns solo or $600 with 2 guys ($300 per guy /day).

I am growing and have enough demand and equipment to send 2 guys separate for 2 $400 days. If separate they can bring in $800 by running another truck. Today's example. one guy is scheduled for 11 small lawns and the other is scheduled 7 larger lawns. the small lawn guy is scheduled for $330 in revenue. The larger is scheduled for $385. Friday the small lawn guy has 14 for $460 and the larger lawn guy has 7 @ $545. so 2 guys could bring in $715 and $1005 on consecutive days when separate. I wonder if they could do 18 and 21 with the driving necessary to get to these places. I'm cutting window time in half and sending them to locations with equipment necessary. could be totally different than the areas everyone else is mowing. We have a lot of 2000 sq ft properties. We get $25 for and some take 6 minutes to do. but 2 guys at a 6 minute lawn can only be cut down to 3-4. One red light would costs you more than servicing it.

Again you try to prove that sending out both workers solo you would be making more money so one worker will mow faster then a crew of two.

Problem is the variable of drive time. Is your route's that large that you're better sending out two trucks better then one?

Think this way they go out together they mow the properties in half the time, yet still have the same total drive time whether one truck doing 30 miles or two trucks doing 15 miles.

Then you save money by only running one truck, one less registration, plates, inspection, maintenance, repairs, insurance.
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  #25  
Old 06-14-2012, 10:59 AM
BradLewisLawnCare BradLewisLawnCare is offline
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Not proving. Statistical numbers prove. Not that they mow faster, faster per man hour.

Routes are big enough. From Troy Albany is southwest 4-8 miles Latham is west 4 and Troy is 10 miles north to south 3 miles wide. Population of 250000 in that area not counting outskirts. So kinda in the middle. 30 miles 2 guys = 60 mile drive time. To pay a guy for 30 extra miles . That's the dilemma.
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  #26  
Old 06-14-2012, 01:31 PM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is offline
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Location: Grand Rapids, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradLewisLawnCare View Post
duekster,

Per man hour. doing $400 in lawns solo or $600 with 2 guys ($300 per guy /day).

I am growing and have enough demand and equipment to send 2 guys separate for 2 $400 days. If separate they can bring in $800 by running another truck. Todays example. one guy is scheduled for 11 small lawns and the other is scheduled 7 larger lawns. the small lawn guy is scheduled for $330 in revenue. The larger is scheduled for $385. Friday the small lawn guy has 14 for $460 and the larger lawn guy has 7 @ $545. so 2 guys could bring in $715 and $1005 on consecutive days when separate. I wonder if they could do 18 and 21 with the driving necessary to get to these places. I'm cutting window time in half and sending them to locations with equipment necessary. could be totally different than the areas everyone else is mowing. We have a lot of 2000 sq ft properties. We get $25 for and some take 6 minutes to do. but 2 guys at a 6 minute lawn can only be cut down to 3-4. One red light would costs you more than servicing it.
You're on the right track, don't let these guys distract you.

Unless these are larger accounts, one man makes more per hour than 2 will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32vld View Post
Initially anyone will make more money working solo because they don't have to pay a second salary out of their pocket.

Keeping all the profit is not the same as being more efficient or making the most money.

There are only so many hours in a week that a solo can work and bill for.

The phrase economy of scale is why large corps as Brickman makes more profit for their owners. They're making a percentage off of every employee they have. What they earn off the back's off their employees is more then you or any other LCO can make working solo.

I am not talking solo operators, because neither is the OP. I am talking crews, as in employees. I'm going to hazard a guess that I am in a different boat than probably 95% of the posters here. I have crews, as in employees, that mow for me. Yes, I mow once in awhile. Sometimes a lot. But I have done the job costing. One man crews consistently make more dollars per hour than 2 or 3 man crews because there is little to no wasted time waiting for the other guy to do whatever he has to do before finishing. Add in travel time and they will blow larger crews out of the water even more.

I wish I still had access to my info for CLIP. I had 6 or 7 years worth of job costing on mostly the same accounts. The dollars per hour always went higher with fewer crew members. And based on estimated man hours, the 1 man crew always beat 2 man, everything being equal. I even had a brand new mowing person that could beat the estimated times. That was her first year working for me.
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  #27  
Old 06-14-2012, 08:04 PM
FBT FBT is offline
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Location: Massapequa, NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradLewisLawnCare View Post
So i am doing an analysis of my mowing crews. both

size to see what is more efficient (1 or 2 guys).

and

pricing to see if I am pricing my lawns according to costs (or close enough)


My hypothesis is that 1 man crews operate faster. I also hypothesize that the sq footage pricing method works very good for open spaces and very small lawns with a high enough y intercept (when x is the sq footage).

That being said, how many times should i mow the grass before I start making conclusions. On 14 day lawns I will only get 14-16 samples and on weekly I'll get 30. on every 10 days I will get 18-30 up here. How big should my sample be to be significant or should I just use the whole years data?

I realize that the more often the guys mow a yard the quicker they will be there per sq foot. so weekly mowing should cost a bit less than bi-weekly, but I am not quite there in my analysis. I have exactly 99 lawns on my analysis list (wish i had one more!!!)

I plan to do as most guys say to do on this site. price my accounts according to production levels and work my price from costs instead of just assuming or using sq footage. I priced a couple properties this year on sq footage and one was at $160 and it costs me about $24 in labor to service while another was $87.50 and It costs $48 to service after 4 services. The first property I hate to lower the price and the last property I don't feel like keeping. So I will naturally increase the price of the second property when I finally determine what It costs me within a certain significance level.

What do you all think?
You lost me at hello.
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  #28  
Old 06-14-2012, 08:53 PM
jrs.landscaping's Avatar
jrs.landscaping jrs.landscaping is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
You're on the right track, don't let these guys distract you.

Unless these are larger accounts, one man makes more per hour than 2 will.



I am not talking solo operators, because neither is the OP. I am talking crews, as in employees. I'm going to hazard a guess that I am in a different boat than probably 95% of the posters here. I have crews, as in employees, that mow for me. Yes, I mow once in awhile. Sometimes a lot. But I have done the job costing. One man crews consistently make more dollars per hour than 2 or 3 man crews because there is little to no wasted time waiting for the other guy to do whatever he has to do before finishing. Add in travel time and they will blow larger crews out of the water even more.

I wish I still had access to my info for CLIP. I had 6 or 7 years worth of job costing on mostly the same accounts. The dollars per hour always went higher with fewer crew members. And based on estimated man hours, the 1 man crew always beat 2 man, everything being equal. I even had a brand new mowing person that could beat the estimated times. That was her first year working for me.
I don't crunch numbers into a computer to tell me how to stay competetive or profitable, I leave that to bean counters. Every company is different. And you are absolutely right I run two 2 man crews yet have no employees. If you told me to send one of my guys to mow a 13 acre facility we mow and it would be more cost effective.... I would have to call your bluff. 2000 sq ft lawns, yeah one guy is more effecient than 2. But for me and my opinion I wouldn't send four guys, with four trucks trailers and mowers an hour from the shop to mow properties in the same town. Calculated man hours is a great base but when your average size property is 60,000 sq ft sending only one man is a step backwards, not all businesses fall into a "cookie cutter" mold becuase a computer says so.... IMHO
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  #29  
Old 06-14-2012, 09:07 PM
FBT FBT is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Massapequa, NY
Posts: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
You're on the right track, don't let these guys distract you.

Unless these are larger accounts, one man makes more per hour than 2 will.



I am not talking solo operators, because neither is the OP. I am talking crews, as in employees. I'm going to hazard a guess that I am in a different boat than probably 95% of the posters here. I have crews, as in employees, that mow for me. Yes, I mow once in awhile. Sometimes a lot. But I have done the job costing. One man crews consistently make more dollars per hour than 2 or 3 man crews because there is little to no wasted time waiting for the other guy to do whatever he has to do before finishing. Add in travel time and they will blow larger crews out of the water even more.

I wish I still had access to my info for CLIP. I had 6 or 7 years worth of job costing on mostly the same accounts. The dollars per hour always went higher with fewer crew members. And based on estimated man hours, the 1 man crew always beat 2 man, everything being equal. I even had a brand new mowing person that could beat the estimated times. That was her first year working for me.
We've been through this a hundred times already, one man crews do not "consistently make mre dollars per hour than 2 or 3 man crews." What do you base that on? And you guys always talk about "travel time." How far apart are your houses?
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  #30  
Old 06-14-2012, 09:38 PM
FBT FBT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32vld View Post
How much are you paying those guys?

You get what you pay for.

Edging and line trimming around obstacles is harder and more skill and takes more time to master then mowing.

So why is your best man with the skills and the highest pay put in the position of doing the easiest and less skilled work?

Sometimes I go out alone, sometimes my friend comes out. He is not good as me at edging or as fast. We get to a stop he does the tight areas with the 20" push while I'll get on the 42" rider. When he's done with the 20" he takes over the 42" and then I edge and trim. Whoever gets done first gets the blower. So if I'm blowing he'll load up the trailer and were both done at the same time.

Work must be matched to the ability of the employee not by I'm here the longest/senior man. He's not getting paid the most money to be doing the easiest work, well he should not be.
Why are you running around all day with the push mower when you have help? You're not saving any time doing it that way. Let him cut everything with the 42 rider and you string trim, then blow.
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