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  #41  
Old 06-14-2012, 10:53 PM
FBT FBT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradLewisLawnCare View Post
Fbt,

Hello . Never said it so I thought I'd start with that. We do have neighborhoods where we get to do multiple houses on the same street. Not lucky enough to have it as tight as some would want or expect. Maybe that's where my analysis differs. I think where we may be lost is that when you show up to a job one guy mows and the other weed walks and then someone blows or they both do. There comes a time when the mower beats the weed wackier or the opposite. And if you have to load and unload every stop or most, then there is idle time waiting for the other guy to finish.

Let's call large mower variable a , walk behind b, push c ,weed wacker d and blower e. it is very rare for me that any of these 5 variables summed for guy1 and guy 2 would equal each other. I also don't usually see and decrease in overall man hours by having them on site together.

In the previous statement you say one guy makes $150. If you send another guy out doing the same thing he makes $150 too if they do the same type of thing. You need more equipment to do that. What do you think?
I'm not talking about sending another guy out on his own, the 2 guys work together. The investment is just another Scag 36. And we never have a guy standing around. If one guy is done before the other 2, he grabs another blower, or another string trimmer, or helps with the beds. Or if we're prunning and the 2 guys doing it are done they help the other guy clean up. And to get your route bigger and tighter, maybe charge a little less to get the new customers and then go up the ladder with them.
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  #42  
Old 06-14-2012, 11:06 PM
SDLandscapes VT SDLandscapes VT is online now
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I think that you might be looking at this equation and ignoring some rather important factors. Instead of looking at $ per man hour while the blades are running or $ per man hour solo vs. multiples why don't you look at it gross profit per hour or day and net profit per day. You will find crews with multiples score much better and larger crews do even better yet provided you have a tight route or bigger accounts. At the end of the day who cares what your guys grossed per hour--what was the gross profit margin/net profit margin? Arent we at this to make money?
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  #43  
Old 06-14-2012, 11:17 PM
BradLewisLawnCare BradLewisLawnCare is offline
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More revenue per man hour mean more profit holding man hours constant.man hours is a cost basis. So by increasing revenue per man hour you increase gpm and npm.
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  #44  
Old 06-14-2012, 11:22 PM
32vld 32vld is offline
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Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
One man crews consistently make more dollars per hour than 2 or 3 man crews because there is little to no wasted time waiting for the other guy to do whatever he has to do before finishing.
When employees are allowed to stand around with their thumb up their....... Time is wasted because of bad management.

When I go out with a second man we always are going to the end. There is no spectating.

One man crew leaves shop drives 1/4 hr mows a lawn 1 hr. At the end of 7.5 hrs he mowed 6 lawns @ $50 per lawn gross $300 for the day. Take away $100 salary $200 left over.

Two man crew leaves shop drives 1/4 hr mows a lawn in .5 hr. At the end of 7.5 hrs they mowed 10 lawns @ $50 per lawn gross $500 for the day. Take away $200 salary $300 left over.

Yes one man billed out more per man, $300 for the day.
Where the two man crew billed out $250 each.

But at the end of the day the two man crew cleared $100 dollars more after salaries were paid. And they did it with one truck one trailer one large mower one small mower one edger/trimmer one blower.

To send out two 1 man/solo crews All the trucks trailers and everything else has to bought in double and then carry the added expense and maintenance all on less money that the one man crew clears after salary is taken out.

I guess Brickman is going to be going belly up soon.

There were about 2,500 automobile manufactures in America. If being small was better why did all but the biggest company's fail.

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  #45  
Old 06-15-2012, 06:38 AM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradLewisLawnCare View Post
Fbt,

To create a different point of view. Say you were out mowing yourself(no clue and really isn't a big deal either way). By mowing yourself you bring in $66/ hr. By hiring a new guy for $10/hr you make $90/hr. This I feel is some peoples mentality in analysis. So w another guy and acouple more accounts you an make $90/hr yourself. Where it fails is when you step out of the work and Into analysis. For an investment of another set up and more clients, you can make your $66 and theycan go make $66 so revenue of $132 and then take out their $10 andyou make $122/hr. All made up numbers. Today's work for me was revenue of $700 and 18 man hours so using $10 I had $190 (2 overtime hours) making me close to $30 per man per hour including driving time for the day. Don't care if it's good or not but the point if they were together is to question whether they would achieve the same lawns in the same time with double winshiekd time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BradLewisLawnCare View Post
More revenue per man hour mean more profit holding man hours constant.man hours is a cost basis. So by increasing revenue per man hour you increase gpm and npm.
Posted via Mobile Device
Good to see at the very minimum you understand what I am referring to and know what you're talking about and aiming at. No many in this thread do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 32vld View Post
When employees are allowed to stand around with their thumb up their....... Time is wasted because of bad management.

When I go out with a second man we always are going to the end. There is no spectating.

One man crew leaves shop drives 1/4 hr mows a lawn 1 hr. At the end of 7.5 hrs he mowed 6 lawns @ $50 per lawn gross $300 for the day. Take away $100 salary $200 left over.

Two man crew leaves shop drives 1/4 hr mows a lawn in .5 hr. At the end of 7.5 hrs they mowed 10 lawns @ $50 per lawn gross $500 for the day. Take away $200 salary $300 left over.

Yes one man billed out more per man, $300 for the day.
Where the two man crew billed out $250 each.

But at the end of the day the two man crew cleared $100 dollars more after salaries were paid. And they did it with one truck one trailer one large mower one small mower one edger/trimmer one blower.

To send out two 1 man/solo crews All the trucks trailers and everything else has to bought in double and then carry the added expense and maintenance all on less money that the one man crew clears after salary is taken out.

I guess Brickman is going to be going belly up soon.

There were about 2,500 automobile manufactures in America. If being small was better why did all but the biggest company's fail.

Can you explain to me the difference between gross profit and net?

Can you define net profit for me?
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  #46  
Old 06-15-2012, 07:06 AM
SDLandscapes VT SDLandscapes VT is online now
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@BradLewis

There is a well regarded industry consultant name J P Lamarche and he would love to discuss with you. I once thought the same way that you did, but trust me no matter what your accounting tells you one man crews will put you out of business--certainly 1 man crews are the most efficient I will agree to that, and as you add people you lose efficiency sure, but you increase the number of billable hours per day. If you put more people on the same crew you are doing more gross revenue with the same overhead thus increasing your gross and net profit margins one three man crew vs 3 one man crews. Brickman works for a reason and many other large companies do this too. Trust me I thought exactly the way you did and was heading that way--as you grow and add equipment to cover all that you add so much overhead that it very much ruins your bottom line.

I ll ask this question how much gross revenue per truck are you doing?
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  #47  
Old 06-15-2012, 07:49 AM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDLandscapes VT View Post
@BradLewis

There is a well regarded industry consultant name J P Lamarche and he would love to discuss with you. I once thought the same way that you did, but trust me no matter what your accounting tells you one man crews will put you out of business--certainly 1 man crews are the most efficient I will agree to that, and as you add people you lose efficiency sure, but you increase the number of billable hours per day. If you put more people on the same crew you are doing more gross revenue with the same overhead thus increasing your gross and net profit margins one three man crew vs 3 one man crews. Brickman works for a reason and many other large companies do this too. Trust me I thought exactly the way you did and was heading that way--as you grow and add equipment to cover all that you add so much overhead that it very much ruins your bottom line.

I ll ask this question how much gross revenue per truck are you doing?
Never heard of him\her. What is his\her history? Is he\she only a consultant? Ever run a successful landscape business? Sold out? Closed doors before the bank did it for him\her?

Consultants are consultants for a reason.

Brickman has multiple person crews because they hire minimum wage employees and can make it up--sort of--in volume. I would also hazard a guess that they have different crews doing different things at some\many of their customers, especially the ones they actually are trying to make look good.

1 man crews are going to run one out of business? Horse hockey. You even said it, if they are the most efficient, how are they going to put you out of business? If you are adding overhead but losing money, then there is a problem with your pricing or production.

The idea of this or any business is profit. Revenue does not equal profit. Increasing revenue by adding people does not necessarily increase profit. You state this point yourself. Your post contradicts itself.

This is basic math, no Masters or PHD needed. Well, and a basic understanding of accounting.

These kinds of posts are why we are not looked at as professionals. I have had similar discussions at plowsite regarding hourly rates and so many people just don't get it. Same thing in this thread.
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  #48  
Old 06-15-2012, 07:53 AM
Get Some...'s Avatar
Get Some... Get Some... is offline
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My analyasis revealed that my old butt is not as tired after mowing all my lawns if I have a helper.

It was not a scientific study.....
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Self employed for over 35 years..
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  #49  
Old 06-15-2012, 10:12 AM
32vld 32vld is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
Good to see at the very minimum you understand what I am referring to and know what you're talking about and aiming at. No many in this thread do.



Can you explain to me the difference between gross profit and net?

Can you define net profit for me?

Difference between net and gross?


I ask a better question. Is it better to send out one man with a truck trailer and equipment and have him clear $200 for you or would you be better off sending two men out with the same truck trailer and equipment and have them clear $300 for you?

I'll take the $300 from the two man crew.

What is GROSS PROFIT: is thinking that $200 return from the the same truck trailer and equipment is better then getting $300. Can't paint a grosser image then that.

Numbers don't lie but liars use numbers to lie.

You are blinded by that the solo man makes $300 for the day while the two man crew each only $250 for the day. You can call that more efficient all day, every day.

But at the end of the week that solo man only made you $1,000 for the week.

While the two man crew would of made me $1,500 a week.

You can keep your distorted sense of greater efficiency.

I'll take my sense of greater efficiency and the extra $500 a week in my pocket that the two man crew earned.


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  #50  
Old 06-15-2012, 11:00 AM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is online now
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So 32vld, you say liars use numbers to lie, but you are the one using the numbers. I find this very humorous.

You also failed to answer the question I posed, I am guessing, based on the rest of your reply, you don't know the difference between gross and net. You proved that with the rest of your answer.
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