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  #51  
Old 07-17-2014, 02:10 PM
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ron mexico75 ron mexico75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bweier View Post
To answer a few questions at once. My fungus issues have been dollar spot, red thread and brown patch.

Concerning fungicide resistance, here is what I have been told.

"There is definitely truth to alternating fungicides but it is blown out of proportion. They are just like any pesticide where a plant or insect can build up a resistance over a long time. Using the same fungicide for 2 or 3 summers in a row is not going to build up this resistance so I wouldn't worry about it much at all."

For the Cleary's I was given a tip on another product which may be worth a look.

"Cleary's 3336 is an excellent fungicide and extremely safe for ornamentals and humans. I will say it is kind of costly because the coverage for most diseases is only 7-10 days. I would recommend Propiconazole 14.3 for this application. It is a slightly lower rate and can give up to 21 days control with almost the same price per quart."

This advice comes from my salesman who carries all the products I have discussed...he has been great for me and his prices seem to be excellent. My results with the Headway G are nothing short of excellent...my grass LOVED it.
I have spoke with 4 different people at 3 different suppliers and they all said what you just posted with regards to resistance. I was told that's more of a concern for golf turf versus home turf. Not that it can't happen but a lot of guys/companies used the same product for all 3-4 apps on residential.
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  #52  
Old 07-17-2014, 02:48 PM
bweier bweier is offline
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I had what I thought was brown patch 4 years ago. My neighbor ALWAYS has red thread so I get some incidence of that where our lawns abut. My main issue has been dollar spot. I have blue, bent, rye, and fescue in my lawn...each needs something different...at differnet times...so it has been challenging. What I posted is a combination of all the advice I received from Michigan State University, 15+ years in the lawn care business, due diligence doing research, and what has WORKED for me personally.

Your aversion to Headway G is somewhat curious...since it CLEARLY works for me and others who have posted here. Your comment about "boat payments" is BS and uncalled for. It implies either gullibility on my part, and/or insincerity on the part of the person that has helped me transition from big box BS short-term low-quality remedies to the high quality products referenced here...neither of which are true. I'll post a few pictures of my lawn and you can decide for yourself. My advice is solid...the products I reference are beyond reproach...and your snide comments are unappreciated.
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  #53  
Old 07-17-2014, 05:01 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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I don’t have any aversion to Headway G. I just think that it is important to apply IPM principles to all parts of turf management. For all pests, whether its diseases, insects, or weeds, we need to identify and understand the target pest (as well as the desirable species) in order to find a remedy. Once the target pest is identified, we look at all the factors that may be reducing turf health and modify those to the best position possible (which can include spray applications).

So, I asked which “fungus” you were targeting. Some of your recommendations didn’t make much sense. Apply fertilizer at the same time you’re applying fungicide? For dollar spot and red thread, the fertilizer negates the need for a fungicide. For brown patch, the fertilizer will reduce the efficacy of the fungicide and you’ll have more brown patch. Read the MSU publications and research on the three diseases you mentioned. You’ll see that they don’t recommend any sprays for dollar spot or red thread, and recommend sprays only sparingly for brown patch. If you’re spraying more than just sparingly (no more than once every couple of years), it tells me (and the good folks at MSU) that you’re spraying too much.

Also, consider your other recommendations for active turf diseases:
#1 Spray any liquid fungicide to knock down “fungus” immediately? Any quality fungicide will work? Are you sure? Different fungicides will work in different ways. Some will work immediately, but others will take several days to work. Not all fungicides target the same pathogens. Some very high quality materials may not target the pathogen you’re dealing with.

#2 Order Headway G no matter what problem you have? There are some aggressive turf diseases that aren’t controlled by Headway G. Wouldn’t it be a good idea to know what’s causing problems in your lawn before you try to spray something on it?

#4 Washing your mower will reduce disease incidence? This one has been proven false in numerous university trials. All turf disease pathogens are soil borne organisms. They are ubiquitous in the environment, so washing your mower has no impact on them. There will still be thousands of turf diseases pathogens in each gram of soil, no matter how many times you wash off your mower.

Why do I question salesmen and company reps? They all sound helpful, but they are trained to make sales, not to treat your lawn. A lot of times, these guys don’t know much about their own products and they recommend uses that are against the label or blatantly give bad advice, such as not to worry about resistance. Headway G has in it two active ingredients that are very prone to resistance (azoxystrobin and propiconazole). Had your salesman said that if you use it once each summer for two or three summers, you won’t see much resistance. But, you said you use it preventively and then use it for several applications. How many years have you used it? Did you or are you going to switch to a different mode of action after 2 or 3 summers? Do you know what fungicides have modes of action that are different than the two in Headway G?

BTW, you can buy the same active ingredients at the big-box stores than you can at your salesman’s location. I just saw both of these actives last week.

You gave a lot of good advice in your first set of recommendations (#s 1-5). But, the rest of it ignores basic IPM practices, puts product into the environment unnecessarily, and spends more money than is needed to maintain a great looking lawn.
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  #54  
Old 07-17-2014, 07:20 PM
bweier bweier is offline
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"The fertilizer negates the need for a fungicide"...pure rubbish. I was at a 4-6 week interval with a 25-0-8 and still got dollar spot...why? Was I nitrogen deficient? Nope. Was I remiss in applying fertilizer? Nope. I have a lawn that is susceptible...PERIOD. I have clay...I have bent grass...I have favorable conditions for fungus. Your blanket statement is just...WRONG. Sometimes your lawn gets fungus regardless of your fertilizer protocol.

The reason I use Headway G is that is covers the ENTIRE range of fungus...especially dollar spot. BTW, it is applied 3.5-4 # per 1000 sq ft not "sprayed" as you imply. It is the preeminent fungicide to use for northern turf grasses and will knock ANY fungus we have here in MI down.

Your paranoia about salesman and their products is laughable...truly. I stand by 100% what I do...what I use...and you are just flat wrong and dismissive for no other reason than to make yourself feel good. My protocol works...PERIOD.

You want to use Bayer or Spectracide from Home Depot or Lowes...be my guest. The cost is EXACTLY the same to me...$100 per application...and Headway G is FAR superior to any Scotts, Bayer, or Spectracide CRAP you find at Menards, Home Depot, or Lowes.

In sum, I think you are just being argumentative for no good reason. Again, you are speaking to somebody with 15+ years lawn care experience...commercial equipment...and BY FAR the best looking lawn in the area. Mislead people all you want...
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  #55  
Old 07-17-2014, 08:37 PM
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ron mexico75 ron mexico75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bweier View Post
"The fertilizer negates the need for a fungicide"...pure rubbish. I was at a 4-6 week interval with a 25-0-8 and still got dollar spot...why? Was I nitrogen deficient? Nope. Was I remiss in applying fertilizer? Nope. I have a lawn that is susceptible...PERIOD. I have clay...I have bent grass...I have favorable conditions for fungus. Your blanket statement is just...WRONG. Sometimes your lawn gets fungus regardless of your fertilizer protocol.

The reason I use Headway G is that is covers the ENTIRE range of fungus...especially dollar spot. BTW, it is applied 3.5-4 # per 1000 sq ft not "sprayed" as you imply. It is the preeminent fungicide to use for northern turf grasses and will knock ANY fungus we have here in MI down.

Your paranoia about salesman and their products is laughable...truly. I stand by 100% what I do...what I use...and you are just flat wrong and dismissive for no other reason than to make yourself feel good. My protocol works...PERIOD.

You want to use Bayer or Spectracide from Home Depot or Lowes...be my guest. The cost is EXACTLY the same to me...$100 per application...and Headway G is FAR superior to any Scotts, Bayer, or Spectracide CRAP you find at Menards, Home Depot, or Lowes.

In sum, I think you are just being argumentative for no good reason. Again, you are speaking to somebody with 15+ years lawn care experience...commercial equipment...and BY FAR the best looking lawn in the area. Mislead people all you want...
BWEIER:

Don't entertain the gal, I blocked her a while ago for exactly what's she's doing to you. I had never even interacted with the individual before and was totally "jumped" like she's doing to you. You can go through numerous posts for this user and see the exact same argumentative, condescending, and plain rude attitude you're received for no reason at all.

I'm very surprised lawnsite hasn't given her some time off. Always arguing and putting people down.

I agree with what you have said. I used Headway G and absolutely love it. I also put down some nitrogen in June which goes against all logic for TTTF. It was .5 lb per 1000 and helped green up the damaged turf as well as helping it "grow out" of the sickness. 2 turf experts who used to be golf course superintendents even said what I did was good.
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  #56  
Old 07-17-2014, 08:41 PM
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Michael J. Donovan Michael J. Donovan is online now
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Let's try to stay on topic and, in some cases, maybe some can use the ignore feature so as to avoid one another. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no need to try offending or go after one another here in these discussions

Thanks all
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  #57  
Old 07-17-2014, 09:24 PM
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heritage heritage is offline
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Under heavy Brown Patch conditions, Compass 50 WSP followed up 2 weeks later with Eagle 20 EW. Both applications are tank mixed with Grigg Brothers Sili-Kal-B.

It IS an expensive 4 week protection program BUT results are hard to match for BP.
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  #58  
Old 07-18-2014, 09:54 AM
ron mexico75's Avatar
ron mexico75 ron mexico75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heritage View Post
Under heavy Brown Patch conditions, Compass 50 WSP followed up 2 weeks later with Eagle 20 EW. Both applications are tank mixed with Grigg Brothers Sili-Kal-B.

It IS an expensive 4 week protection program BUT results are hard to match for BP.
Curious as to the prices for that...

Sounds like a curative treatment, what about preventative? Some of just use granular and don't spray though.
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  #59  
Old 07-18-2014, 02:18 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bweier View Post
"The fertilizer negates the need for a fungicide"...pure rubbish. I was at a 4-6 week interval with a 25-0-8 and still got dollar spot...why? Was I nitrogen deficient? Nope. Was I remiss in applying fertilizer? Nope. I have a lawn that is susceptible...PERIOD. I have clay...I have bent grass...I have favorable conditions for fungus. Your blanket statement is just...WRONG. Sometimes your lawn gets fungus regardless of your fertilizer protocol.

The reason I use Headway G is that is covers the ENTIRE range of fungus...especially dollar spot. BTW, it is applied 3.5-4 # per 1000 sq ft not "sprayed" as you imply. It is the preeminent fungicide to use for northern turf grasses and will knock ANY fungus we have here in MI down.

Your paranoia about salesman and their products is laughable...truly. I stand by 100% what I do...what I use...and you are just flat wrong and dismissive for no other reason than to make yourself feel good. My protocol works...PERIOD.

You want to use Bayer or Spectracide from Home Depot or Lowes...be my guest. The cost is EXACTLY the same to me...$100 per application...and Headway G is FAR superior to any Scotts, Bayer, or Spectracide CRAP you find at Menards, Home Depot, or Lowes.

In sum, I think you are just being argumentative for no good reason. Again, you are speaking to somebody with 15+ years lawn care experience...commercial equipment...and BY FAR the best looking lawn in the area. Mislead people all you want...
So I think it’s obvious that we’re all passionate about what we do here. This conversation also shows us that there’s more than one way to skin this cat.

I singled you out (perhaps unfairly) when I saw you write that you “battled fungus in your yard.” Because turf diseases are so specific in their conditions, hosts, and treatments, turf managers usually refer to the specific diseases they see. When I see that someone says they have “fungus” (some of the most economically important turf diseases aren’t even true fungi) it’s usually a good indicator that this individual hasn’t identified the problem yet. Then, they make an application and lament on LS when it didn’t solve their problem.

It’s nothing against you personally. It happens all the time. A couple of weeks ago the North Carolina State University Plant Diagnostic Lab reported that over the last 8 years, 52% of the 4000+ turf samples that have been submitted by professional turf managers for disease identification were disease-free. Very often, anything that looks out-of-the-ordinary is deemed to be a “fungus.” If we want to be taken seriously as turf managers, we have to know exactly what “fungus” we’re seeing before we can begin to formulate the proper treatment.

Regardless if one chooses to use your method to skin the cat, my method, or one that is different from either of ours, I think that proper identification of the issue is the critically important first step, with an understanding of the pathogen’s characteristics being a close second.

Maybe it’s my mission in life (however misguided it might be) to get people to stop saying “fungus” when they think they’ve got a disease problem and just say what disease they’re dealing with.
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  #60  
Old 07-18-2014, 05:47 PM
bweier bweier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ron mexico75 View Post
BWEIER:

Don't entertain the gal, I blocked her a while ago for exactly what's she's doing to you. I had never even interacted with the individual before and was totally "jumped" like she's doing to you. You can go through numerous posts for this user and see the exact same argumentative, condescending, and plain rude attitude you're received for no reason at all.

I'm very surprised lawnsite hasn't given her some time off. Always arguing and putting people down.

I agree with what you have said. I used Headway G and absolutely love it. I also put down some nitrogen in June which goes against all logic for TTTF. It was .5 lb per 1000 and helped green up the damaged turf as well as helping it "grow out" of the sickness. 2 turf experts who used to be golf course superintendents even said what I did was good.
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Thanks Ron. The biggest improvement I see with my lawn the last 2 years is consistently putting down the Shaw's Turf Food fertilizer (25-0-8) every 6 weeks per instructions. This keeps my lawn stronger...healthier...thicker...and more likely to ward off disease. If I do see early signs of fungus, I'll hit it with a fungicide regardless of timing of the fertilizer application which is ALWAYS every 6 weeks. After seeing my yard crushed twice by fungus...the money is well spent for me.

It makes me laugh when somebody dismisses my assessment of my own lawn. I have mowed literally 5000+ lawns in my life and have seen EVERYTHING possible. I spend 10+ hours each week in my ornamental gardens and on my lawn and know the difference between dollar spot...red thread..brown patch...grubs...and other ailments. Besides that one crazy humid nasty brown patch year, it is dollar spot and red thread here in SW Michigan...precisely why I recommend Headway G...because it will address both.

To each his own...haters gonna hate
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