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  #41  
Old 06-29-2012, 07:54 PM
Brieldo Brieldo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickhippy View Post
Just for sh!ts n giggles, watch these...
http://youtu.be/i7WWvfFVTS8
http://youtu.be/UePkqcRIqK8
http://youtu.be/jMmyqgLShHE

The new SZ, while you do sit a little higher (not much once youve been on it a while,) the CoG is the same or lower than the older SZ. The all extra weight in the deck, engine, larger pumps n wheel motors and just the amount of extra hydro fluid (about 12lts) off sets that smaller height increase.
If still worried put on some AT101's and half fill them with fluid.
Mick: Couple thoughts.

1. What's the cost of one of these units?
2. The speeds are definitely lower than a ZTR.
3. The drive system looks to be gear/transaxle driven vs. wheel motors. Definitely a different design (far more tractor-like) than ZTR.
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  #42  
Old 06-29-2012, 07:58 PM
herler herler is offline
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We tried this method of improving the lawn mower many years ago and the only thing that came of it was nothing like we had envisioned, kind of like we are thinking cruise control and what came of it was some piece of steel down by the belts but the price of the machines went up by the thousands.

Now we can only wish they'd make them simple again...
We're far beyond willing to even try and give any suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mnglocker View Post
Just get a combine at that point.
Just as well off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chips17 View Post
I just want scag to put winches on there zero turns. Im tired of getting stuck and putting them on my mowers. I want it to come from the factory that way. the cheapest winch is only 60 bucks on ebay
That alone will increase the price of a Z by $500 to a thousand dollars, better off buy that $60 winch and put it on yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realslowww View Post
How much does a combine cost?
Retail on one we were looking at was $164,000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realslowww View Post
about anything for about 15000 $.
No, LOL No!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realslowww View Post
There is a good size market for this.
No, there isn't, just ask Auburn Industries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Realslowww View Post
and you could build this setup to out cut that for 25 grand with no problem and be much cheaper to fix and easier to work on. Way easier to transport as well.
Only thing that's going to happen is they put today's 12 thousand mower on tomorrow's market for 25 thousand dollars and the reason I know this is because today's 12 thousand mower is yesterday's 8 thousand dollar machine.

Same effing machine with three silly $10 changes and one or two things that are all right but still not worth the royal pounding.

And you are NOT going to want to buy it!
But you will have no other choice than to EAT it.
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  #43  
Old 06-29-2012, 08:11 PM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brieldo View Post
1. Not sure what you mean about flat earthers, witch burnings or stonings but as an engineer and person who has owned a company developing products, I'll add some more thoughts.

2. Hustler's ratings are done for the sake of marketing. While there may be some validity to the numbers they offer, they're using the numbers relative to zero turn hydraulic systems. What you're talking about is a great deal more demanding than the simple action of moving a ZTR around. Two-speed could be doable, however, if you're wanting the high speed to be usable while working, not merely for transport, you will need a far more robust system than anything found on any mower out there currently, short of transaxle based systems. Even the big WAM offerings from Deere and Toro stipulate that the high speed setting is for transport only.

3. The mower would weigh a great deal more than 100 lbs more if you're sticking with the engine upsizing required to run both the hydros and deck drive system. Lets do a little engine comparison...

Engine Dry Weights:
Kawasaki FX1000 (Hustler Super Z): 138 lbs
Kohler 40 HP diesel: 343 lbs
Kohler 64.4 HP diesel: 432.2 lbs.

So...we're talking a lot more than 100 lbs. Those weights dont include fluids, mufflers, etc. They may not even include the radiators and such. Given that 40 HP is going to be very much on the small end of the spectrum in terms of needed power, you're looking at over 200 lbs+ in additional weight on the engine alone.

Now, make a deck that's of the specs necessary for bush hogging (it's not going to be 7 ga/10 ga construction), add a shaft-driven gear box and a PTO capable of driving everything and you're probably talking 750 lbs without doing anything in the way of upgrading the frame, linkages, etc.

3. Find me a deck designed for bush hogging that's belt drive/mule drive. They don't design/implement them that way for a reason. You want reliability and longevity...it's not coming from a belt-driven deck. While the electromagnetic clutches on a ZTR can undertake occasional rough mowing, over the long-term, they won't stand up to the kind of abuse that kind of mowing imparts on components. Hit some big rocks/brush/etc hiding in tall grass/weeds, and you'll see the clutch give up the ghost very early in life.

4. Price out a Honda VTX motor and calculate what it would cost to get it implemented in this design. Going to turn it on its side? Not going to work. Furthermore, look at the RPM range that engine is designed to run. You're talking about an engine that's made to be connected to a gearbox. 100 hp and 100 lb-ft of torque at what RPM?

5. You're changing your argument/what you're after mid-discussion. Your original post talked about a no-holds-barred super mower with a huge engine, bigger drive system, yadda. Now you're wanting just a different deck to put under a Super-Z type platform? Which is it?


6. At no point did you address the business/economics side of your proposal. Companies don't make products they can't sell. If the market isnt there, or the economics of the product doesn't scale, the product isn't going to happen. This is a very important distinction. Just because something can be done, doesnt mean, from a business standpoint, it should be.
I was joking when I say flat earther but you are proving my point, read all the posts. We are already 80% of the way there with the Super Hyper.If you read the post's it states
that a diesel is to heavy for this appt and the mower being gas will eat alot of it but it will make up for it in versitilty and productivity.

You see the Wamm and all that stuff like that is like big money and not very versitile and hard as hell to fix + expensive.

I just talked to a Hustler dealer today about this while I was looking at the new Super which by the way is a real built mower.

He flat out told me and he sales big tractor's as well with cutting attachment's that to cut 15 feet plus of grass at a time with a big tractor rig I would need 80 or 90 HP and said the hole setup for a tractor like this would be 70 or 80 thousand to do it right.

The biggest problem with the v twin idea is the vibration of a 1200cc + unit not the motor HP #'s at what RPM .Making 50 HP and 70 Ft pounds of torque at a lower RPM should be no problem for a 1200 to 1500 cc V twin engine.

Hell Harley does it and they don't even know how to build a motor.

You could get the motor out with radiator in the 50 to 60 pounds more range with no problem.You could set a oil lubrication system up to oil all the component's of the motor that could arise from the engine being on the side.

Just look at the technology used to drive the most sophisticated Jap production motorcycles,they give you a F1 motor for peanut's!

If there is a call for a motor unit it will be built unless the Illuminati decides to destroy us all. and demolish the world economy with their funny money system.

The motors are getting more powerful and a 45 or 50 HP unit arriving shortly on the scene would not surprise me in the least.

The deck is no problem either my XR7 is fine,this is not a bush hog but a mower that can cut grass at speed quickly that is 2 weeks to a month's worth of growth with no problem.

I would want this mower to max out at 12MPH and have torque to pull 1200 to 2400 pounds of pull behinds in order to put that stupid Wamm thing on the trailer going to the dump where it belongs! just a joke.

A rear discharge would be the ticket on the deck for this app,just talked to a guy who always's had 72 inch side discharges he bought a new Super Hyper with a 72 RD and he claims it cut's great and the blades last twice as long for him because the unit does not stir sand up near as much and you only sharpen them 1/2 as often.

Last edited by Realslowww; 06-29-2012 at 08:16 PM.
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  #44  
Old 06-29-2012, 08:38 PM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 1,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by herler View Post
We tried this method of improving the lawn mower many years ago and the only thing that came of it was nothing like we had envisioned, kind of like we are thinking cruise control and what came of it was some piece of steel down by the belts but the price of the machines went up by the thousands.

Now we can only wish they'd make them simple again...
We're far beyond willing to even try and give any suggestions.



Just as well off.



That alone will increase the price of a Z by $500 to a thousand dollars, better off buy that $60 winch and put it on yourself.



Retail on one we were looking at was $164,000.



No, LOL No!



No, there isn't, just ask Auburn Industries.



Only thing that's going to happen is they put today's 12 thousand mower on tomorrow's market for 25 thousand dollars and the reason I know this is because today's 12 thousand mower is yesterday's 8 thousand dollar machine.

Same effing machine with three silly $10 changes and one or two things that are all right but still not worth the royal pounding.

And you are NOT going to want to buy it!
But you will have no other choice than to EAT it.
I don't want to give this away but the flat eathers force it out of me,THIS HAS NEVER BEEN AVAILABLE TILL NOW!

None of the ZTR's had strong enough motors or drive components to make this work.

Brad the guy I talked to today who sell's the big mowing setup's you know the 70 to 80 thousand $ mower said flat out he cannot believe what I am asking for does not exsist already and that this thing would blow the 70 to 80 thousand $ tractor OUT OF THE WATER for doing what I want. And he admitted the big mowing unit would be obsolete for the most part in most conditions for commercial use.


And he sells them!

The mower it self 14 to 15 thousand 5 to 6 thousand for each tow behind of 72 inches.

For around 25000 you could have an incredibly versitile set up to cut 20 ft of grass in one pass and for 10 to 12000 more you could add 2 more pull behinds and bang out 30 + feet at a time for a grand total of around 35 to 40 grand.
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  #45  
Old 06-29-2012, 08:52 PM
Realslowww Realslowww is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melrose FL
Posts: 1,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snyder's Lawn Inc View Post
Last time I was in FL I didnt see any slopes that steep you talking about
Have any pics
Have you ever looked at the grass on a interstate over pass,is that steep enough for you?
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  #46  
Old 06-29-2012, 10:35 PM
Mickhippy's Avatar
Mickhippy Mickhippy is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Queensland, Australia.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brieldo View Post
Mick: Couple thoughts.

1. What's the cost of one of these units?
2. The speeds are definitely lower than a ZTR.
3. The drive system looks to be gear/transaxle driven vs. wheel motors. Definitely a different design (far more tractor-like) than ZTR.
Specs...http://www.ihi-shibaura.com/english/...lf/sg280a.html

I have no idea of cost. That vid was made in England Im guessing. I did email Shibaura about it some time ago and they had no plans to bring it to Australia.

Dont need speed on a slope, you need traction. I think that machine is well fast enough. It says 18km/hr or 11mph in High and 9km/hr or 5mph in low gear in the specs. The guy was mowing faster than 5mph in those vids.

No, its not a ztr but, its not a high CoG tractor either. 28hp diesel, 2 range 4wd, low CoG would certainly have its advantages and could be used on larger lawns as well.
I personally think this is a great machine from the looks and specs.

on edit, Just remembered Shibaura supply the tractor for Hustlers out front.
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  #47  
Old 06-29-2012, 10:36 PM
unit28 unit28 is offline
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Location: MN, A-noka CO.
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just an idea, for rear PTO
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  #48  
Old 06-29-2012, 10:40 PM
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Mickhippy Mickhippy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unit28 View Post
just an idea, for rear PTO
Is that an X595 ot 748 or whatever they are? I loved my 595.
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  #49  
Old 06-29-2012, 11:09 PM
unit28 unit28 is offline
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looks like 700 series
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  #50  
Old 06-30-2012, 12:58 AM
2stroked 2stroked is offline
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Yeah I agree that jd looks like a x700 series
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