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  #41  
Old 06-30-2012, 01:11 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Putting aside all of the "optimum Solutions" that may be real or theoretical... I'm just wondering what various strategies have been implemented in the real world, that seemed to help...

I'm not pretending to supply data, only whether people have found effective ways of dealing with clay inexpensively, yet effectively... don't overthink it...
Areation and top dressing with compost as CGA mention. Give those bugs something besides sugar.
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  #42  
Old 06-30-2012, 01:29 PM
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cgaengineer cgaengineer is offline
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Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
............. Why?
Because I can...
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  #43  
Old 06-30-2012, 01:45 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by Duekster View Post
Areation and top dressing with compost as CGA mention. Give those bugs something besides sugar.
You've stated what is 'optimum'... we all know that... but compost topdressing after aeration is expensive and as was stated earlier... aerating w/out topdressing is similar to creating little clay pots... I thought the little clay pots remark was rather astute...

What is needed is other alternatives, and remember this is hypothetical in that my dog spot lawn is only 'one example' and is really doing excellently... I'm looking for alternatives that may work inexpensively in other lawns that suffer compaction and anaerobic environments due the the texture of the soil being 'clay-like'...

That is why I'm asking for success stories in dealing with the hardships of clay, based on experience from creative LCO's across the spectrum... Perhaps I should have entitled this thread 'success stories of clay' but then we'd hear a lot about the expensive procedures that have worked and that we are all familiar with...

I'm seeking a shift from the expensive conventional wisdom, in that not everyone has money to blow on turf or even the landscape...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #44  
Old 06-30-2012, 02:10 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
You've stated what is 'optimum'... we all know that... but compost topdressing after aeration is expensive and as was stated earlier... aerating w/out topdressing is similar to creating little clay pots... I thought the little clay pots remark was rather astute...

What is needed is other alternatives, and remember this is hypothetical in that my dog spot lawn is only 'one example' and is really doing excellently... I'm looking for alternatives that may work inexpensively in other lawns that suffer compaction and anaerobic environments due the the texture of the soil being 'clay-like'...

That is why I'm asking for success stories in dealing with the hardships of clay, based on experience from creative LCO's across the spectrum... Perhaps I should have entitled this thread 'success stories of clay' but then we'd hear a lot about the expensive procedures that have worked and that we are all familiar with...

I'm seeking a shift from the expensive conventional wisdom, in that not everyone has money to blow on turf or even the landscape...
I do not think you will find a better low cost solution than aeration and top dressing. Good luck.
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  #45  
Old 06-30-2012, 02:41 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Well, the daily rinsing and occasional molasses turned out to be perfect for one lawn that I know of... don't be so quick to discredit alternatives that have real promise...

I think of this as being close to hydroponics, in the sense of trying to understand WHY it works... it obviously works,,, so the only question left is,,, WHY???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #46  
Old 06-30-2012, 02:53 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
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Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Well, the daily rinsing and occasional molasses turned out to be perfect for one lawn that I know of... don't be so quick to discredit alternatives that have real promise...

I think of this as being close to hydroponics, in the sense of trying to understand WHY it works... it obviously works,,, so the only question left is,,, WHY???
Shallow root and sugar.... what is not to love.
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  #47  
Old 06-30-2012, 03:25 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by Duekster View Post
Shallow root and sugar.... what is not to love.
Certainly I'd like to see the roots grow deeper, and be immune to the urea concentrations of the dog spots... We do aerate, but it seems a meaningless gesture as ThinkGreen, indicated... Compost actually made the dog spot situation worse, last Fall and seems to have been useless as a solution for the growing season...

I'm not expecting an 'either/or' solution...

As for now, it appears that as long as irrigation is available to wash away dog spots and one is sitting on a hardpan clay soil, it appears that , that is the way to go... I don't claim to have a long term solution, I'd like to work towrds a long term solution, and I'd like to know :

What other principles have been discovered to function within the confines of 'clay soil',,, whether long term or short???

I do have to say though, that between the mulch mowing and the molasses our dog spot problem dropped over 75%... we are now working on the other 25%... And the "ANT INVASION" is a total myth...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #48  
Old 06-30-2012, 04:21 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is online now
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Lawns that are home to dogs are not candidates for my normal watering program. Those lawns do much better if they are irrigated to an inch per week except the waterings are daily. Those lawns also do much better if I restrict the N to less than maximal rates. The worst dog burns I have seen were on lawns where the homeowner is fertilizing himself using urea based granules.

If I want to maximize water penetration/percolation, then the soil chemistry is looked at. Specifically, calcium, magnesium, sodium and bicarbonates. The ratio of calcium to magnesium is also thought about. There are many bad sites that I have rehabilitated without mechanical aeration simply by addressing that.
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  #49  
Old 06-30-2012, 05:22 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Lawns that are home to dogs are not candidates for my normal watering program. Those lawns do much better if they are irrigated to an inch per week except the waterings are daily. Those lawns also do much better if I restrict the N to less than maximal rates. The worst dog burns I have seen were on lawns where the homeowner is fertilizing himself using urea based granules.

If I want to maximize water penetration/percolation, then the soil chemistry is looked at. Specifically, calcium, magnesium, sodium and bicarbonates. The ratio of calcium to magnesium is also thought about. There are many bad sites that I have rehabilitated without mechanical aeration simply by addressing that.
I've heard of that idea before... How does it work and can I test the procedure on one half of a lawn and compare nit to the untreated half??? I am looking for the ability to drain water through soil profile...
Are you saying that this is possible by changing the chemical composition of the clay layer???
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
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  #50  
Old 06-30-2012, 06:42 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Lawns that are home to dogs are not candidates for my normal watering program. Those lawns do much better if they are irrigated to an inch per week except the waterings are daily. Those lawns also do much better if I restrict the N to less than maximal rates. The worst dog burns I have seen were on lawns where the homeowner is fertilizing himself using urea based granules.

If I want to maximize water penetration/percolation, then the soil chemistry is looked at. Specifically, calcium, magnesium, sodium and bicarbonates. The ratio of calcium to magnesium is also thought about. There are many bad sites that I have rehabilitated without mechanical aeration simply by addressing that.
Generally I do not recommend daily watering although many ET controller will do just that if allowed. It makes for lazy grass in my opinion. Others will say it is ok, the concern is if you get a watering restriction.

I am not aware of this Calcium to Magnesium ratio for soil conditioning or for plants. I know for people it seems to make sense. How would find out the best ratio for their particular clay? I know I can test for those levels but how do I know the best ratio to reduce compaction and improve tilth?
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