Register free!
Search
 
     

Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 07-01-2012, 04:56 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 7,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
Well said. I had to deal with some tree hugging granola eating types at a meeting the other week wanting to constantly apply compost instead of a good fertility program. According to my mentor who was also at that meeting, I thoroughly #$%^ all over that. By correcting soil chemistry and feeding the grass what it needs, it does its own aeration and organic matter creation. Why do that manually when there is a less invasive way to do it?

I bypass bad root systems when designing a program. Do not depend on slow release this or that. Which is usually formulated with the wrong N and K sources. Now if someone were making slow release ammonium sulfate and potassium nitrate, I could change. MESA does not count because that is partially urea. I am not being paid to try to maintain turf on 3-4 applications in a 12 month 365 day growing season. In fact, anyone sold on 3-4 applications a year is asked to look elsewhere. My grasses are also not allergic to nitrogen during the growing season either.
Four applications is an absolute minimum to substain. To keep the natural bio activity going, you want to maintain constant levels of N too.

I am not going to pretend to know soil microbiology but I do know their activity goes up and down with available Carbon and Nitrogen. Active soil microbes will improve the soils more than any thing we can do short term.

I do apply PHC product, it does have innoculates, sugars humates and seaweed. It also has a good trace mineral and Iron boost.

Most of our track home sites start off with a lots of trash, heavy conpaction and a layer of sand over clay. Aeration is a very good idea.
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 07-01-2012, 05:05 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 7,280
Agreed. Remember also that most of my lawns are mowed with the basket in front of the reel. Not up to me. I need to constantly replace what is lost. Lots of NPK and micros ending up in the baskets.

I explained it as GIGO garbage in garbage out. Unless the foreign compost is from highly fertilized vegetation, it is not adding much to the soil. I am dealing with clay or coral that is devoid of nutrients. Most of the introduced organic matter comes from those same soils devoid of nutrients. GIGO.

I like the Essential Plus formula by Growth Products, but again, it is with and not instead of fertilizers.
__________________
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin 1775

Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.
Benjamin Franklin Poor Richard's Almanac1738
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 07-01-2012, 05:09 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 7,971
Further, bad or shallow root systems are more a concern when setting up irrigation frequency.

Slow release is more for granular programs where folks want to apply 1 pound of N and expect it to last 2 months.


I have no problem with organic fertilizers as the microbes will make it available to the plants over time. People that want organics have to accept less than picture perfect greens.
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 07-01-2012, 05:21 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 7,280
No arguments there. My policy of 1/2" of water every 4 days is not instilled on lawns not on my fertilization program. Too much urea, not enough potassium and too many chlorides are a contraindication for deep waterings.

I have the good fortune of dealing with people that do not ask for organic. In fact, some of them ask me if I fall into that because that is what the last guy sold them and it did not work.
__________________
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin 1775

Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.
Benjamin Franklin Poor Richard's Almanac1738
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 07-01-2012, 05:25 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 7,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
.

I like the Essential Plus formula by Growth Products, but again, it is with and not instead of fertilizers.
I have looked at that product several times. Looks kind of like a mix between supertrive, seaweed.


I also looked at BioNutrients for Truf.

I have used both their iron products, and AMMOS. Did not like to color responce of the AMMO's. The Iron was no more effective ( but cheaper ) than the PHC bio pac.

I am going to AS over the Uflexx 46 based on your recommendations.

The primo I use does cause yellowing so I have to hit the Iron.

I use Certinty but I try to use it early in the season cause it yellows too.

I might shift it to late in the season for winter grasses. But I digress on the weeds portion because we are talking soils.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 07-01-2012, 05:34 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 7,280
The iron I swear by is the Loveland FEAture 6-0-0. It is not an expensive product, but it works for me. My experience with anything urea is that I need to go over 1 lb per 1000 of N to get the same color I do out of 1/2 lb of N from ammonium sulfate. When going over 1/2 lb of N, it does undesirable things to the growth of the grass as I mentioned previously. Urea also does not supply sulfur. Both you and I have a need to acidify soil.
__________________
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin 1775

Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.
Benjamin Franklin Poor Richard's Almanac1738
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 07-01-2012, 05:43 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 7,971
Quote:
Originally Posted by greendoctor View Post
The iron I swear by is the Loveland FEAture 6-0-0. It is not an expensive product, but it works for me. My experience with anything urea is that I need to go over 1 lb per 1000 of N to get the same color I do out of 1/2 lb of N from ammonium sulfate. When going over 1/2 lb of N, it does undesirable things to the growth of the grass as I mentioned previously. Urea also does not supply sulfur. Both you and I have a need to acidify soil.
I have considered the AS and the assocated 24% S. Seems a little high to me. However it seem the pH of the mix will not be too bad, I just have to watch it if mixing some Herbicides.

Our soil and water does have a high pH. I have also read that the environmental Sulfur levels have dropped a lot with the reduction in Diesel fuel
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 07-01-2012, 05:48 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 7,280
AS does not hurt anything other than a sulfonylurea application. Otherwise, I am ok mixing this with Banvel, Image or any preemergent. The high water volume you should be using with AS also rules out application with SU's because they work by penetrating leaves, then translocating through the roots.

Reduction of acid rain has been a good thing for the northeastern forests and lakes. However, I also notice the difference in that chlorosis in plants has become an issue since ULSD became mandatory.
__________________
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin 1775

Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.
Benjamin Franklin Poor Richard's Almanac1738
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 07-01-2012, 05:53 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 7,971
It seems the Iron Citrate is the best to use.

Flexx used to be 8 # per AC and 7%

Quick look at the Love Land fe recommends ~ 5 # / AC @ 10%. Seems to be about the same range. I suspect the Green up from the Flexx was from the iron not the bugs.

General price ?
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 07-01-2012, 05:57 PM
greendoctor greendoctor is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posts: 7,280
The microbial stuff is something I do not place much stock in. Unless the soil has spent a week under a methyl bromide/chlorpicrin fumigation, there is plenty of microbial activity. FEATure 6-0-0 costs me a little under $30 per acre, but I am using it at the 6 lb rate. My green is not coming from high rates of N, it is from the micronutrients.
__________________
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin 1775

Sell not virtue to purchase wealth, nor Liberty to purchase power.
Benjamin Franklin Poor Richard's Almanac1738
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:12 AM.

Page generated in 0.07650 seconds with 7 queries