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  #51  
Old 09-04-2012, 10:29 AM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
What OM does Screamin' Green have???
I've answered this on the Screamin Green thread on this forum.
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  #52  
Old 09-05-2012, 12:42 PM
Lawn132012 Lawn132012 is offline
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" Originally Posted by NattyLawn View Post
Sumagreen won't build organic matter. Screamin Green will, albeit very slowly. That's more of a organic based product, as it contains more N and less OM than other ferts offered in the NP line. If you have some lawns with very low organic matter, try the 6-2-4 at 12-15lbs per k or 4-3-1 at 20lbs per k."

Not sure where you get your info from but SumaGreen does build up OM in the soil.
I was just writing to say after the rainfall these past few days after another treatment of SumaGreen my lawns are 'BANGIN'. The difference in one week is crazy. I have a few clients that do not water their lawns so I think that had something to do with it also but several people mention to me that this was the best their lawn looked at the end of a dry summer.

I wish I had taken before pics on the rough looking lawns. I will be doing a few new seed lawns soon so I am interested to see it work on them too
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  #53  
Old 09-05-2012, 03:35 PM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawn132012 View Post
" Originally Posted by NattyLawn View Post
Sumagreen won't build organic matter. Screamin Green will, albeit very slowly. That's more of a organic based product, as it contains more N and less OM than other ferts offered in the NP line. If you have some lawns with very low organic matter, try the 6-2-4 at 12-15lbs per k or 4-3-1 at 20lbs per k."

Not sure where you get your info from but SumaGreen does build up OM in the soil.
I was just writing to say after the rainfall these past few days after another treatment of SumaGreen my lawns are 'BANGIN'. The difference in one week is crazy. I have a few clients that do not water their lawns so I think that had something to do with it also but several people mention to me that this was the best their lawn looked at the end of a dry summer.

I wish I had taken before pics on the rough looking lawns. I will be doing a few new seed lawns soon so I am interested to see it work on them too
I'm not sayin Sumagreen won't get your lawns "Bangin", but why don't you tell me how a liquid application builds OM?
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  #54  
Old 09-05-2012, 03:36 PM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
What OM does Screamin' Green have???
It has a little bit of biosolids and poultry manure.
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  #55  
Old 09-05-2012, 05:21 PM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NattyLawn View Post
I'm not sayin Sumagreen won't get your lawns "Bangin", but why don't you tell me how a liquid application builds OM?
The increased root grow will add some OM. I would assume this is an incremental process which needs to be studied more.

I think it's the combination of larger root systems and the mineralization being done by the microbes that are helping the turf now.
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  #56  
Old 09-06-2012, 01:11 AM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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I've been out of pocket the last few days, but when I was able to read some of these responses, I found them fascinating. Some guys, like replenish, would rather disregard science and opt, instead, to grow their plants based on faith. These people ignore what we know to be true about plant growth and choose to think that if they believe hard enough, any old snake oil will make plants grow. At this point, we're no longer professionals -- we're only guessers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by replenish&subdue View Post
I came away from the video of the professor as a jerk whose weight he liked to throw around was his 30 some years of specializing in microbiology and being a professor at a reputable college.
Are you offended by someone explaining science and how his subject of specialization works? It sounds like you're taking this personally, not objectively.


Quote:
Originally Posted by replenish&subdue View Post
I leave the studies for someone else to take apart.

Maybe this is why you're experiencing some personal anguish over the subject. If you delve into the studies, you will learn the truth and not follow blind statements or "beliefs."


Quote:
Originally Posted by replenish&subdue View Post
Inspite of what professor blah says I believe the soil feeds the plant and not the other way around as he says.
He has scientific evidence to prove his statements. Do you have any scientific evidence to prove your statements?


Quote:
Originally Posted by replenish&subdue View Post
It is the way the Lord designed nature to work verses man using synthetic to feed the plant.
The way the Lord designed nature to work? Apparently your understanding of nature is skewed, since we can observe that it does not work in the way you describe. You can rebel against people all you wish, but nature works how it works, wether you believe it or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by replenish&subdue View Post
In our area of learning we are humbled by the complexity of it all. Soil is as different as a human to another. Sure there are the general loams and soil profiles but in comes the soil chemistry,conditions and a number of other factors.
Soils have properties that can be learned and explained. They are NOT a mystery. Those who choose not to learn about them will forever be an easy target for exploitation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by replenish&subdue View Post
I wish the organic world had an easy system like it is in the traditional with P.N,K with pre & postemerges and fungicides for each kind of fungus,insecticide for each pest.
N, P, and K are not unique to conventional management systems -- plants need those (and other) elements, regardless of the original source. Remember, plants can only take up nutrients in their INorganic forms.


Quote:
Originally Posted by replenish&subdue View Post
I am not shaken by that professor but I am not convinced about these two new avenues of approach.
Shaken? There's nothing to shake, here. The science is clear. If you would rather not believe the science, you must be looking to pull something over on your customers.

*************

This sort even thinks that the science of plant nutrition and soil microbiology exists on every property but their own, ie

Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound
I showed Dr. Zubarer's video to several LCO's & landscapers. A common response was, Bring him to my properties and tell me it's hogwash!
Why some folks think that a single un-scientific, uncontrolled, and unreplicated application trumps thousands of controlled, replicated studies conducted over many years and in many hundreds of growing conditions across the US is certainly beyond me. At this point, objectivity has gone out the window and an overpowering bias toward a product is evident, regardless of actual performance.

It seems as though those who advocate microbial products and management want so badly to believe in a paroduct that they overlook the science and understanding of how plants actually operate. Saying how much I like these products doesn't make them work better. Dr. Zuberer summed up very concisely that conventional products don't harm microbial populations, microbial products don't help microbial populations, and that the best way to encourage microbial populations is to do the conventional things that help to grow healthy plants.
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  #57  
Old 09-06-2012, 07:30 AM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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You're entitled to your opinion.
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  #58  
Old 09-06-2012, 08:50 AM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
The increased root grow will add some OM. I would assume this is an incremental process which needs to be studied more.

I think it's the combination of larger root systems and the mineralization being done by the microbes that are helping the turf now.
Agreed Barry, but that isn't really a valid argument from someone using Sumagreen for a few rounds is it?
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  #59  
Old 09-06-2012, 09:05 AM
NattyLawn NattyLawn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post

It seems as though those who advocate microbial products and management want so badly to believe in a paroduct that they overlook the science and understanding of how plants actually operate. Saying how much I like these products doesn't make them work better. Dr. Zuberer summed up very concisely that conventional products don't harm microbial populations, microbial products don't help microbial populations, and that the best way to encourage microbial populations is to do the conventional things that help to grow healthy plants.
I think you're the one being naive here. You can't continue to mine the soil without putting anything back and continue to get the same results. Conventional products don't build the soil!!!!! Farmers have to increase fertilizer use for the same or less yield, increased disease pressure (buy more fungicides!) and insect pressure that's getting worse as well (buy more insecticides!). The soil being out of whack causes everything else to be out of whack and you buy more fert, more insecticides, more fungicides. Who makes money off of that? Monsanto, Dow, Syngenta, etc.

Dr Zuberer works for TEXAS A&M!!!!! Who do you thinks funds a lot of his research? I'll give you a hint. It's not the makers of Sumagreen, Nutrients Plus, or any other organic product producing company. Sorry, I don't trust university studies. Most don't have any knowledge of organic products.
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  #60  
Old 09-06-2012, 09:20 AM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NattyLawn View Post
Agreed Barry, but that isn't really a valid argument from someone using Sumagreen for a few rounds is it?
Well, it's a very small investment to try some to see if it works for you. Some valid reasons to try it would be increased germination for fall renovation, deeper and more extensive root growth, thick green turf, cost effectiveness, price stability, reduced nutrient runoff, reduced irrigation requirements, reduced reliance on pesticides, reduced reliance on fossil fuels.

And sorry for repeating myself, no one product will solve all problems. Sound cultural practices are the foundation for successful turf management. In addition, it is important to consider the unintended impact our actions may have on water quality and health issues.
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