Register free!


Reply
 
Thread Tools   Display Modes
  #71  
Old 09-06-2012, 07:34 PM
Pilgrims' Pride Pilgrims' Pride is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: MA.
Posts: 481
Hey 132012 I told you I dont get involved with these silly pissing contests didn't I!

OK, I have been following the sumagreen hype for quite some time now and honestly, it seems that the proof is in the pudding!
The stuff seems to be working very well and is especially noticeable in shade areas and areas that are otherwise drought stressed.
Just a thought, but what would improve a droughty appearance.

I'll be putting in my order shortly.
__________________
Pilgrims' Pride Lawn Care
Plymouth, MA.
BE GOOD OR BE GONE
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 09-06-2012, 07:57 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 766
Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Skipster,

I'll have to let my clients know that the results they are seeing from using soil building methods and products are just figments of their imaginations.
I'm sur that your results are only from microbial and organic products All microbial and "organic" products I've seen (SumaGrow and Holganix included) have plenty of N and Fe in them. No scientific study has found those products to give any effect different than similar amounts of straight urea and Fe. I've done research with almost all of these products and have found no difference between them and simple urea or Fe for color, growth, density, and disease incidence. I've also found chlorophyll a, chlorophyll b, and total non-structural carbohydrates to be higher with simple urea than with any of the microbials or "organics." Additionally, soil microbial counts and populations were the same for all treatments. The microbials and "organics" did no better on the surface than conventional management and they did not positively impact plant performance.

The guys who fall hook-line-and-sinker for these products often fail to account for the variation in their "tests." They combine their snake oils with conventional ferts, hiding the lack of results from the snake oil. Or, maybe they think they should combine proper cultural practices with the snake oils and rave about how much better they are than the previous program, when they didn't have the proper cultural practices in the original program to begin with. You can't just look at a lawn after making more than one change and say that it works. You're just fooling yourself.

The bottom line is that the science doesn't support these products. That being said, you can apply to lawns whatever you want, but there is no evidence to support your claims. You can show me pictures of all the corn and soybean roots that you can find, but the actual studies don't show increased crop performance and they don't show how this can improve turfgrass performance.

I understand that you really believe in this product and will endorse it whether it works or not. I just wanted to offer everyone a perspective rooted in science, so that everyone has information with which to make up his own mind.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 09-06-2012, 09:36 PM
phasthound's Avatar
phasthound phasthound is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Mt. Laurel, NJ
Posts: 4,076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
All microbial and "organic" products I've seen (SumaGrow and Holganix included) have plenty of N and Fe in them.
Are you making the claim that the manufacturers of the products you name are in violation of labeling laws?
__________________
Barry Draycott

The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 09-06-2012, 09:39 PM
ted putnam's Avatar
ted putnam ted putnam is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 4,172
Like Pilgrims Pride, I have no desire to get in a pissing match. I am interested in getting to the bottom of this subject though.

I did a little more research on Leonardite the other night and it can be purchased in a couple of different forms and from different companies. They all agree that the best comes from mines in I believe South Dakota. The humates it contains speed root development especially in early stages of growth.This seems to be fact.

Does Sumagreen have anything "microbial" in it? Your guess is as good as mine. It does have 12% Humic and Fulvic Acid in it as stated on the label. Everything else is "proprietary".

So....is it just Humic and Fulvic Acid that has been re-packaged and had the price tag raised? I don't know. This is why when I did my experiment here at home, I didn't use any Urea in an effort to try not to mask any results I might get. We've had the worst drought in 30 yrs, then got 5 inches of rain over 3 days from Isaac here so it has been hard for me to tell anything for sure.

I'd like to incorporate something in my program that would benefit my customers lawns both in health and appearance. If I can do it and cut costs on other inputs that are expensive and possibly environmentally unfriendly then that would be a big PLUS as well.

I am in no way looking for a miracle that would be the end all-be all for lawns from now on. I know better than that...but like everyone else, I want to get the most bang for my buck and want to make sure that what I use does benefit my customers lawns.
__________________
"The Poor Fish" circa 1930's: The Poor Fish wouldn't have been caught if he'd known enough to keep his fool mouth shut.

"Opportunity is missed by most because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"- Thomas Edison, businessman/inventor
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 09-06-2012, 09:57 PM
Lawn132012 Lawn132012 is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NJ
Posts: 175
I do not grow corn nor farm at all but I know what I see on my lawns and half of them are NOT getting ferts. So tell me why the lawns look great if it is not the Sumagreen stuff. Secondly I do not hold much in University studies even though sumagreen has several university studies on there but if sumagreen is not getting better yields I guess the speech at the 4th World Ag Conference was a fake too.

Sumagreen is like any other product on the market. I can find several people that say it works and several people who will tell why it should not work. Like someone said the proof is in the pudding and the pudding I had was pretty darn good. It only costs a few bucks so try it for yourself before you tell everyone why it SHOULD not work. I like it and will still use it again next year along with several other LCO'S I have spoke to.
Hopefully it does not rain tomorrow so I will be working instead of hearing this noise all day.
Reply With Quote
  #76  
Old 09-07-2012, 08:46 PM
replenish&subdue replenish&subdue is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: memphis,tennesse
Posts: 206
Well,it is good that we are all taking an interest in the product. This winter I will put together my unscientific findings and decide how Holganix,SumaGreen and synthetic compared. As least it will be more accurate than A & M because there is no other interest involved but my own.
As long as I am convinced (or not) with the results I can stay on or off the bandwagon. For now I am enjoying the ride.
I hope many will look into these new products and maybe add substance as we go on.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 09-13-2012, 12:19 AM
DUSTYCEDAR's Avatar
DUSTYCEDAR DUSTYCEDAR is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 5,173
butter makes stuff better
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 09-14-2012, 03:29 AM
timturf timturf is offline
LawnSite Bronze Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: central virgina, transition, plant hardy zone 7a, and heat index zone 7
Posts: 1,526
Turfgrass arn't getting enough p2o5 now. Most of the p2o5 is tied up in the soil, very inmobile. If properly applied, very little get into waterways.

Keep the k levels to 3-5%, and closer to 5% if turfgrass is underlot of stress.

5 lbs/acre of fe /yr is plenty

Apply a QUALITY FORTIFIED organic fert 2-3 /yr

Food for thought:
Up to the late 70's in N Ill we be applying ~ 7lbs/m/yr on putting greens, generally using fert containing uf. All of a sudden, the trend went to 3-4 lbs/m/yr....turf look great for several years, then started declining. Why?.....we had depleted the reserve. Net result, we increased the n applications a little

So, you guys weaning off one program and start another, wait several years to make a judgement

Place for liquid and spoon feeding, but in home lawns I believe it's excessive. Just used a quality fortified organic fertilizer

Help me Ric
__________________
Timothy J Murphy Specializing in Quality Turf
Bs in Plant and Soil Science
Almost 40 yrs exp., 20 as GC superintendent
Primarly work with cool season turf
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 09-14-2012, 09:24 PM
ted putnam's Avatar
ted putnam ted putnam is offline
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 4,172
To whom it may concern:

Like I said in the beginning, I am not going to sugar coat anything.

It has been just over a month now since I applied sumagreen to specific areas of my lawn. We got the first substantial rain we've gotten in months about 3 weeks ago (Isaac remnants). The lawn began recovery and I really didn't notice a big color change or anything in the areas I treated with sumagreen. And really, to this day there is no real color difference between treated and untreated areas (If so, it is very slight). It has been about 3.5 months since I treated everything with a 22-2-4 fert.

However, while looking at the lawn today, I noticed the areas where I began to run out of the test spray. These were the areas where I began making short passes with the last few ounces. There are obvious borders (square edges) where I ended each short pass with the t-jet fan tip I was applying with. The turf is much thicker(more leaf blades) in these treated areas but like I said before, not really greener. A definite difference in texture to be sure.

Dusty's has a way with words,
Butter does make lots of stuff better.

I don't know how or why it works but there is something to it. It was plain to see. Just thought I would share that with those who are interested.
__________________
"The Poor Fish" circa 1930's: The Poor Fish wouldn't have been caught if he'd known enough to keep his fool mouth shut.

"Opportunity is missed by most because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work"- Thomas Edison, businessman/inventor

Last edited by ted putnam; 09-14-2012 at 09:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 09-15-2012, 09:34 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,945
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted putnam View Post
To whom it may concern:

Like I said in the beginning, I am not going to sugar coat anything.

It has been just over a month now since I applied sumagreen to specific areas of my lawn. We got the first substantial rain we've gotten in months about 3 weeks ago (Isaac remnants). The lawn began recovery and I really didn't notice a big color change or anything in the areas I treated with sumagreen. And really, to this day there is no real color difference between treated and untreated areas (If so, it is very slight). It has been about 3.5 months since I treated everything with a 22-2-4 fert.

However, while looking at the lawn today, I noticed the areas where I began to run out of the test spray. These were the areas where I began making short passes with the last few ounces. There are obvious borders (square edges) where I ended each short pass with the t-jet fan tip I was applying with. The turf is much thicker(more leaf blades) in these treated areas but like I said before, not really greener. A definite difference in texture to be sure.

Dusty's has a way with words,
Butter does make lots of stuff better.

I don't know how or why it works but there is something to it. It was plain to see. Just thought I would share that with those who are interested.
I thought color was the thing that clients went by...
Oh Well,,,

It would also be worthwhile to add the product, to a normally fertilized lawn undergoing correct cultural practices... especially interestting to compare with compost/soymeal/CGM fed lawns...
my guess is that: you can only have so much optimum health, no matters how many salads you eat and supplements you take and the same would be true for grass...

Whether that statement is correct or not,,, who knows...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:15 AM.

Page generated in 0.08181 seconds with 8 queries