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  #11  
Old 07-26-2012, 09:27 PM
Hissing Cobra Hissing Cobra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
There's no motive to build a healthy stand of self-sufficient independant turf, becuz the money is in the unhealthy dependant turf...
So, what you're saying is that someone who fertilizes every 6 weeks, waters every other day, and has a beautiful lawn, has unhealthy dependant turf? Please enlighten us!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
We claim to follow scientific understanding of botanical principles, yet when the extension offices recommend holding off N apps until late Spring,,, the lawnboys are out dumping NPK w/pre-M even before the first mowing...
Who claims to follow scientific understanding of botanical principles? Maybe you do but that doesn't mean that everyone else will. THE LABEL IS THE LAW! If someone is following rules and regulations that were passed into law but are different than what the extension offices are recommending, that means that they're wrong? Again, please enlighten us!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Lawnboys need money, not an understanding of horticultural principles as defined by horticultural researchers... so I'm assuming that lawnboys do not understand what I'm saying most of the time for that reason... instead they jump on the bandwagon with snide remarks that detract from intelligent conversation, because it is outside their ability to understand... they alway win and its started already so this thread is over, as far as I'm concerned...
This quote is completely ridiculous! You need money as well, that's why you do this, correct? EVERYONE in this industry needs money or they wouldn't be doing it - yourself included. Unless of course, you work for free! Do you?

I follow a 6 step program (5 fertilizer applications - 2 that include Dimension, 1 that includes Allectus, 1 Organic fertilizer, and 1 "Winterizer" Fertilizer) where I put down 1lb. of Nitrogen per 1,000 sq. ft. per application, for a max of 5lbs. per season. I apply these at 6 week intervals and follow it up in the fall with my last application, which is a granular dolomitic limestone. At no time during the year, do I exceed the specifications on the label. I also use no weed control and pluck those as I go. I also use no fungicides. My lawn is the best one in my entire neighborhood, doesn't have a single weed, the neighbors love it and always comment that it looks beautiful. How is that unhealthy? Is it because my lawn is "dependent" on fertilizer to feed it? Like any living thing, food is required at regular intervals to keep it's life sustainable. You couldn't go for months at a time without food, correct?

There is no "Perfect" lawn! While it's something that we all want to achieve, it's simply impossible to do. Mother Nature holds the cards and she'll ALWAYS throw something at you, whether it's heavy rains, high intense heat, drought, insects, fungus, etc.... That doesn't mean that we can't get a beautiful lawn that has some small issues during the season.

If we followed what the Extension services always tout, we'd all have weed infested prairies that require nothing. I've seen a lot of our extension service recommendations and some of them are quite frankly, not realistic. Besides, who's to say that what the Extension service touts, is the Gospel Truth?

By the way, it's almost impossible to get a strand of healthy, self-sufficient independant turf turf that's not dependent upon food for it to live. If you can provide pictures of a beautiful lawn by someone who's doing the bare minimum, please post them up!

Last edited by Hissing Cobra; 07-26-2012 at 09:33 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-26-2012, 10:28 PM
Grasssales2001 Grasssales2001 is offline
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Actually,plants produce their on food through a process called photosynthesis. Take a day off from cutting grass and spend the day observing nature. You would be suprised what you might learn.
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  #13  
Old 07-26-2012, 11:09 PM
Hissing Cobra Hissing Cobra is offline
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I know about Photosynthesis and understand it very well. However, how does that translate to beautiful, healthy grass without any fertilizer whatsoever?
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  #14  
Old 07-27-2012, 08:47 AM
Grasssales2001 Grasssales2001 is offline
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How much of the 5 lbs of N is actually taken up by the plant? Have you ever charted the growth of your turf? When is it most actively growing? When is it dormant? Could you get the same results with less N? If you irrigate, have you ever had your water tested?Do you mulch your clippings?
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  #15  
Old 07-27-2012, 01:49 PM
Hissing Cobra Hissing Cobra is offline
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I had my soil tested for the PH Level last year and it came back at 6.2, slightly lower than the 6.5 - 7.0 that the experts recommend. Thus, roughly 18% of my fertilizer is wasted and 82% is going to the grass. After I apply another limestone application this fall, I'll be getting it checked again next summer and I expect the PH to raise into the proper area, thus more of the fertilizer's nutrients will be taken in.

I've never charted the growth of the lawn but I do know for sure that it grows the best in the spring, followed by a slowdown in the summer, and then it picks up again in the fall - but not as much when compared to the spring growth. Most of the "experts" say that a cool season mix of Perennial Ryegrass & Kentucky Bluegrass will do well with 3.5lbs - 4.5lbs. of Nitrogen per season. I'm at 5lbs. right now so I'm slightly higher. The Nitrogen does get used up, as does the Potassium and the Iron, so I'm not too worried about it. I do use Fertilizers with 0% Phosphorus (does not get used by mature plants and thus sits in the soil) so I'm not contributing to contaminating the soil in that area. I could not get by with less Nitrogen during the season as I can always tell by that 5 - 6 week mark that it's beginning to starve and the color fades.

I do have an irrigation system and vary my watering to coincide with what the turf needs. My town has a watering ban from April 1st - September 30th and I can only water on even numbered days. In the spring, I didn't really need to water at all. Once I began to water, it was 15 minutes per zone every other day and then I increased a few times by 15 minutes as the temps went up and the rain disappeared. Currently I'm at 1 hour per zone every other day. I have town water so I do not have it tested. However, I feel that if it's good enough to drink, I'm sure it's not going to hurt the lawn.

I do mulch my clippings and I'm a firm believer in mulching. My lawn is not perfect (none of them are) but it's very good and I get compliments on it all the time.
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  #16  
Old 07-27-2012, 02:55 PM
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phasthound phasthound is online now
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Our organic based cool season programs do very well with 3.5lbs N.
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  #17  
Old 07-27-2012, 03:15 PM
Mark Oomkes Mark Oomkes is online now
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Hmmm, our lawns have been doing quite well with 2.5# N the last 3 years. Maybe 4.

Applied one time............
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  #18  
Old 07-27-2012, 03:32 PM
Hissing Cobra Hissing Cobra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
Our organic based cool season programs do very well with 3.5lbs N.
I'm a firm believer that organic based Fertilizers work awesome. I've seen them in action and I actually use one during the season. However, I'm not fully behind the Organic based weed control (Corn Gluten), Organic based Insect control (Garlic Barrier), and the Organic based Grub Control (Milky Spore). I've seen them in action first hand and it's something that I'm not impressed with. I've also sat through multiple classes over the years that were put on by U-Mass Amherst and Pat Vittum, Randy Prostek, and others and they're all in agreement that while those products may work somewhat, they won't work much to meet your customer's expectations.

I'm not against Organic controls, it's just that I don't see them living up to my expectations in trying to create a beautiful lawn (with the exception of the Organic based fertilizers).
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  #19  
Old 07-27-2012, 03:33 PM
Hissing Cobra Hissing Cobra is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Oomkes View Post
Hmmm, our lawns have been doing quite well with 2.5# N the last 3 years. Maybe 4.

Applied one time............
So, you're only fertilizing one time per season at 2.5lbs. per 1,000 sq. ft.? What kind of product are you using?
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  #20  
Old 07-27-2012, 04:13 PM
Grasssales2001 Grasssales2001 is offline
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I deal with warm season grasses. But what if I told you sod could be grown from seed to a sell-able state with 3#'s of N. It takes approx. 15 months.
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