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  #21  
Old 08-23-2012, 04:02 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Milorganite one of the all time best. I'm aware of florida's issues with phosphorus. The problem is the so called surplus of phosphorus in our soils. Yea it's kinda there but it's locked in the soil ( not avail for use ). potassium is one of my favorite elements for healthy turf conditions. but it's secondary to phosphorus's ability to repair damaged or weak turf. cutting this nutrient out completely was a bad idea. wonder why chinch recovery is tough. nice thing about milorganite applied it does help slightly to break out the locked phosphorus, but only helpfull in long term goals. sorry don't know why that all came out.
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  #22  
Old 08-24-2012, 07:05 AM
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jvanvliet jvanvliet is offline
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There's nothing wrong with adding phosphorus to a lawn that's recovering from shock or newly installed; it should be added judicially and only in quantities sufficient for the requirements based on soil tests. We'll spread a low phosphorus granular blend (like a 10-10-10) to newly sodded lawns after about 10 days.

Pouring high phosphate fertilizers on lawns on a regular basis is what's causing the problem; usually by enthusiastic home owners, LCO's that don't have a clue or Sanford and Son squirt guys.

Most of the problems related to chemicals that the industry confronts is a function of home owner abuse and idiots. I hate to say it, but is some instances regulation ain't all bad.
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  #23  
Old 08-24-2012, 07:46 AM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Turf care was just more manageable when you could apply oooooh lookout he's gonna say it, Dursban and say 15-5-15. Since Dursban is an organophosphate and you had phosphorous in most fert blends chinch were tough but very manageable. The urban turf rule should apply 90% to homeowners. License applicators (license applicators) should have more discretion when it comes to applying this necessary nutrient. I have analyzed hundreds of soil samples in central fly in my years(all prepared at CLC LABS in Ohio) and yes phosphorus was always a surplus. Those analysis started changing 2 years after middle number dropped to 0-2. Samples stopped showing surplus. I understand it is legal to apply under certain rules but experienced license holders should be given more respect for their understanding of what's needed not left on the same level as a homeowner.
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  #24  
Old 08-24-2012, 07:59 AM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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When frost damages turf or chinch damage turf recovery is slow and you have to apply herbicide like madd until recovery happens if it happens. Homeowners doing their own treatments go through the same scenario but they're most popular herbicide is atrazine and they don't even understand it's mode of action. I like atrazine but it's nasty stuff. I will suggest that since the no phosphorous rule to date atrazine is being used more often than before despite lots of modern herbicides. You think atrazine is not making issues since the increase in use St. Johns WM. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
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  #25  
Old 08-24-2012, 08:28 AM
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Agreed, everybody is painted with the same brush except pros get two coats.

Lots of excellent chemicals taken off the market as a result of over application, mostly by the HO; Dursban is certainly one as is DDT although it's indiscriminate application was borne uot of ignorance sparking the the fable "Silent Spring" and the environmental movement.

I didn't know Atrazine was labeled for chinch...
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  #26  
Old 08-24-2012, 08:40 AM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Was talking about slow recovery=weed invasion=more herbicide =atrazine. No doubt it's a herbicide understand the context. But it is strange how its so bad on amphibians but not little insects.
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  #27  
Old 08-24-2012, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by turfmd101 View Post
Was talking about slow recovery=weed invasion=more herbicide =atrazine. No doubt it's a herbicide understand the context. But it is strange how its so bad on amphibians but not little insects.
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I know, I was joking.

There's nothing wrong with Atrazine. The hysteria came about because of a German Environmental groups study that implicated Atrazine as a cancer agent in food crops. The Germans panicked and either restricted it's use or banned it altogether. The EU followed suit; not to be outdone so did the EPA and slapped a skull and cross bones on it.

Good thing they didn't ban it, because like "Roundup" there is probably no better or safer herbicide for food crop management. We'd be eating rotten insect infested small as chipmunk nuts tomatoes and melons at $100.00 a pound.

There is really no conclusive evidence that Atrazine is a cancer causing agent in food crops or cause mutations. Mutated amphibians, fish, reptiles and even mammals are a common occurrence in nature.

It's sort of like how the left sees AIDS; everyone that has AIDS also has HIV; therefor everybody with HIV will contract AIDS Never happened nor will it.

I'm beginning to think a scorched earth policy is a good way to go except the environNazis will cry about the carbon emissions.
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  #28  
Old 08-24-2012, 09:38 AM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Here's the point about phosphorous. Since it's demise. St. Aug root systems have been under developing. Most should agree you have root systems but what do you have? Most St. Aug has decent anchor roots but very little feeder roots developing on these anchor roots. Hard for the plant to uptake nutrients before they leach. Direct result of low P, or readily available P. This is a necessary need. Not just for newly installed grass plantings. St. Aug doesn't use the same roots forever they age also and are replaced just like foliage ( replace old with new ). Just because the turf looks healthy doesn't it will stay healthy and alive. Just like a human good looks do not ensure you will live a long time, but HEALTHY kinda will. The best looking person on the planet can have cancer and they might not know for a while. There looks did not dictate health. The root system is the life blood of all plant types. If we fail the root system, the plant will fail us. Anyone can take unhealthy turf make it look good with Fe liq. the turf will green up sure, but not because its healthy. I'll bet 80% of you could start checking your root systems and if you have the eye & experience you will see this. You will probably also see nematode activity on the root tissue. Just another great side effect of zero P. Newton's Law. The point is a healthy plant takes care of itself ( w/ proper cultural practices applied ). This has also enabled chinch bugs to become active in lawns that for all intentional purposes look healthy. Chinch bugs target stressed turf not healthy turf its to much work and chinch bugs don't lie or waste energy. This real issue will continue to grow. No pun intended.
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  #29  
Old 08-24-2012, 09:43 AM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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Also since we import 90% of our fruit and veg from country's that blast DDT still. Ignorance is very bliss, but don't forget " In the land of the blind the one eyed man is KING "
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  #30  
Old 08-24-2012, 04:46 PM
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jvanvliet jvanvliet is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turfmd101 View Post
Here's the point about phosphorous. Since it's demise. St. Aug root systems have been under developing. Most should agree you have root systems but what do you have? Most St. Aug has decent anchor roots but very little feeder roots developing on these anchor roots. Hard for the plant to uptake nutrients before they leach. Direct result of low P, or readily available P. This is a necessary need. Not just for newly installed grass plantings. St. Aug doesn't use the same roots forever they age also and are replaced just like foliage ( replace old with new ). Just because the turf looks healthy doesn't it will stay healthy and alive. Just like a human good looks do not ensure you will live a long time, but HEALTHY kinda will. The best looking person on the planet can have cancer and they might not know for a while. There looks did not dictate health. The root system is the life blood of all plant types. If we fail the root system, the plant will fail us. Anyone can take unhealthy turf make it look good with Fe liq. the turf will green up sure, but not because its healthy. I'll bet 80% of you could start checking your root systems and if you have the eye & experience you will see this. You will probably also see nematode activity on the root tissue. Just another great side effect of zero P. Newton's Law. The point is a healthy plant takes care of itself ( w/ proper cultural practices applied ). This has also enabled chinch bugs to become active in lawns that for all intentional purposes look healthy. Chinch bugs target stressed turf not healthy turf its to much work and chinch bugs don't lie or waste energy. This real issue will continue to grow. No pun intended.
You'll get no argument from me, if government is involved, the law of unintended consequences apply.

"SAVE THE ROOTS" and I'm not talking Kunta Kinte... lol.
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