Register free!


Reply
 
Thread Tools   Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-31-2012, 12:10 AM
JMK Lawn Service's Avatar
JMK Lawn Service JMK Lawn Service is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Island Lake Il
Posts: 166
Aerating and Dethathing, who does it and when

I am looking to rent a stand on aerator and hit a bunch of properties as quickly as possible. When is the best time to aerate? i have done it spring and fall but have read that it is really good for turf so i want to do it this fall for sure. Is there a better time than another in the fall?Dethatching is something i have only done a few times. We had a really hard summer and lots of dead grass and now a lot of dead thatch and i want to get it out of the lawns this fall before it sits all winter. Is that a good idea? Was thinking of getting a thatch rake for my ZTR and then a pull behind yard sweep. Is fall a good time for dethatching?
Thanks for the help!
__________________
2006 GMC 2500HD LBZ, Ext. Cab SB Black
2011 John Deere Z925 54" 27hp FOR SALE
Black 14' dual axel open trailer
Stihl backpack blower, string trimmer, and hedge trimmer


Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-31-2012, 10:29 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,981
Aerating in the early Fall helps many lawns to get the water with the fertilizer down into the root zone for the time of the year those roots are growing the fastest... Based on this life fact of grass,,, you'll do well to aerate now...

Removing dead grass from the turf is an error,,, for cool-season turf... people improve their lawns by mulch mowing inches of maple leaves into the turf,,, how much better would the natural grasses themselves do as they decayed into the soil... de-thatching is nonsense as far as I can tell...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-31-2012, 04:55 PM
JMK Lawn Service's Avatar
JMK Lawn Service JMK Lawn Service is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Island Lake Il
Posts: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Aerating in the early Fall helps many lawns to get the water with the fertilizer down into the root zone for the time of the year those roots are growing the fastest... Based on this life fact of grass,,, you'll do well to aerate now...

Removing dead grass from the turf is an error,,, for cool-season turf... people improve their lawns by mulch mowing inches of maple leaves into the turf,,, how much better would the natural grasses themselves do as they decayed into the soil... de-thatching is nonsense as far as I can tell...
Ok so aerating is a go. That is good.
I have always mulched leaves and all grass so i know the benifit of that. But why then do people ever dethatch? i would assume taking out the dead grass in patches where no grass is growing would be the best thing. to allow water and fert and water to the roots and let them breath a little better. I am no expert on this so that is why i am researching and asking. Thank you
__________________
2006 GMC 2500HD LBZ, Ext. Cab SB Black
2011 John Deere Z925 54" 27hp FOR SALE
Black 14' dual axel open trailer
Stihl backpack blower, string trimmer, and hedge trimmer


Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-01-2012, 10:31 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,981
Dead grass clippings will hold water and allow it to seep into the ground the same way any other mulch would do... as the grass clippings break down they will aid in the formation of aggregates that build a soil structure that aids in water infiltration, retention, then ulitmately perculation and drainage...
They also make a wonderful seed bed...

Living thatch is the culprit that is water-proof and holds more in puddles than it allows to soak in... de-thatching to eliminate that type of thatch is a real waste of time...
Fot living thatch you want to aerate or possibly verticut your way through it but scratching it up wich a de-thatcher is pretty inconsequential...

Remember I'm only speaking for cool-season grasses and make no claims about warm-season grasses at all...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:20 PM
JoJo1990 JoJo1990 is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
Dead grass clippings will hold water and allow it to seep into the ground the same way any other mulch would do... as the grass clippings break down they will aid in the formation of aggregates that build a soil structure that aids in water infiltration, retention, then ulitmately perculation and drainage...
They also make a wonderful seed bed...

Living thatch is the culprit that is water-proof and holds more in puddles than it allows to soak in... de-thatching to eliminate that type of thatch is a real waste of time...
Fot living thatch you want to aerate or possibly verticut your way through it but scratching it up wich a de-thatcher is pretty inconsequential...

Remember I'm only speaking for cool-season grasses and make no claims about warm-season grasses at all...
Actually Axe, 'dead grass clippings' do a horrible job of holding water. At best, they will reduce some wind speed at the soil surface.

Here is a recent post I made when Axe gave similar information:

Thatch layers can increase and build for a number of reasons. When thatch, especially in cool season lawns, reaches over a half of one inch thick, it should be reduced. This would be an excellent time to verticut or use a power seeder to first de-thatch and then collect that layer. Next, add the seed to your machine and do your seeding passes. You will still pull up more thatch on these subsequent passes but in most cases, that can be left on op of the grass and it will fall back down to the soil on its own.

I've seen little thatch reduction when core aeration is used for the sole purpose of reducing thatch, although it does help to some degree.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-01-2012, 04:50 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoJo1990 View Post
Actually Axe, 'dead grass clippings' do a horrible job of holding water. At best, they will reduce some wind speed at the soil surface. ...


... I've seen little thatch reduction when core aeration is used for the sole purpose of reducing thatch, although it does help to some degree.
Let's first define our terms in rlation to thatch... Dead grass clippings are the most common view of thatch that people have... and I agree,,, "Aeration" is pointless in reducing or enhancing that type of "Thatch"... I essentially just call it 'mulch'...

The "Thatch" that aeration was developed for,,, i.e. the aeration machines were manufactured to help deal with the other kind of "Thatch", which I commonly refer to as "Living Thatch"... this is the hydropobic water proof layer of living and dead roots and stems... a plugger is an excellent tool in dealing with this type of 'thatch'...

The mulch type thatch is nothing more than soggy hay or straw that covers the ground,,, much the same way the "straw" added after seeding is supposed to be... only the natural hay has been deteriorating all summer long and is improving your soil at the same time...

I've been thinking about getting pictures ready to load to this laptop and go through the process of overseeding in mulch thatch, on this forum,,, once the big weekend is over...

Are there still questions that you'd like to see addressed, when I post these pictures???
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-02-2012, 02:49 AM
JMK Lawn Service's Avatar
JMK Lawn Service JMK Lawn Service is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Island Lake Il
Posts: 166
i am learning, but i would love to see some pictures with explinations. That would be great. And maybe i can upload some of what i am dealing with.
Thanks a lot guys
__________________
2006 GMC 2500HD LBZ, Ext. Cab SB Black
2011 John Deere Z925 54" 27hp FOR SALE
Black 14' dual axel open trailer
Stihl backpack blower, string trimmer, and hedge trimmer


Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-02-2012, 01:45 PM
tree_hugger's Avatar
tree_hugger tree_hugger is offline
LawnSite Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Jackson TN
Posts: 256
You must be referring to dethatching just cool season grass. It works wonders on Bermuda and zoysia grass but we only do it in the spring and summer. The thatch insulates the roots of the warm season grass which prevents winter kill so dethatching in the fall is a no no.
__________________
9 YEARS IN BUSINESS
2009 FORD F-250 6.4 CREW CAB 4X4
2002 FORD F-450 7.3 CREW CAB DUMP
2009 KUBOTA ZG327
2010 TORO GRANDSTAND 23 52
2002 NEW HOLLAND TC45D 4X4 TRACTOR
2009 22" TORO RECYCLER
2010 COVERED WAGON ENCLOSED 7X16
6' 10" X 22' GOOSENECK TRAILER
6' 10" X 16' LANDSCAPE TRAILER
6' 6" X 14' BIG TEX TRAILER
6 RED MAX WEEDEATERS
2 STIHL EDGERS
3 RED MAX BLOWERS
1 STIHL BLOWER
1 STIHL HANDHELD BLOWER
3 STIHL CHAINSAWS
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-02-2012, 06:40 PM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Wisconsin
Posts: 9,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by tree_hugger View Post
You must be referring to dethatching just cool season grass. It works wonders on Bermuda and zoysia grass but we only do it in the spring and summer. The thatch insulates the roots of the warm season grass which prevents winter kill so dethatching in the fall is a no no.
Yes I am talking only about cool-season grasses...

Interesting note about thatch being an insulator for winter... We like to leave dead grass in the turf to insulate from the sun...
__________________
*
Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
*
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-04-2012, 12:27 AM
JMK Lawn Service's Avatar
JMK Lawn Service JMK Lawn Service is offline
LawnSite Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Island Lake Il
Posts: 166
great info thanks guys!
__________________
2006 GMC 2500HD LBZ, Ext. Cab SB Black
2011 John Deere Z925 54" 27hp FOR SALE
Black 14' dual axel open trailer
Stihl backpack blower, string trimmer, and hedge trimmer


Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:28 PM.

Page generated in 0.07491 seconds with 9 queries