Why cant Stihl make 2-Cycle equipment?

[Roger]

Originally Posted by LandFakers

I simply will not buy a 4 stroke... I have enough valve problems with my dirt bike

At least you have a good reason, ..... errrrrr, well, maybe not...?

[banjoman]

Originally Posted by 4 seasons lawn&land

I dont like the whole "greeny" thing surrounding the 4 strokes and 2 strokes being simpler are naturally better. I stayed away from stihl for a long time because of that. Most of my stuff is 4 mix now. They just run better and longer for me despite my logic and prefference. And the thing I like most about them is the exact opposite of what you said. The low end torque is so much better.

What Low End Torque? The 4-Mix has none, its all High End Torque. You cant half throttle the 4-Mix trimmers, its full throttle or no cutting. Watch this video, this guy does a great review and describes what im talking about to a T. He starts talking about it around the 1:20 mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noG46RzMikE

[Ridin' Green]

Originally Posted by lawnboy dan

none of the other makers except husky run like they used too. blame the epa. for some reason the huskys still run strong and smooth despite the epa regs. i am nursing all my old models foe as long as possible as i am done with the 4 mix. the shin c4 is no better. hasnt sthil come out with some new 2 stroke models?

Yes they have. Their two or three newest BP's are 2 strokes (200, 350, and 430). They are actually Redmax strato-charged engines in them that Stihl bought just before deciding to go ahead (and come out with) with their huge investment in R&D with the 4 mix. I found all of this info by doing some searching on the net one night last winter when there was nothing else to do. Stihl purchased 100K small 2 stroke strato-charged engines from Redmax to use, but since they had so much invested already in the 4 mix development, they shelved those engines and went full bore at the 4 mix believeing that the epa would eventually force all small engine manu's to follow suit. Then, much to Stihl's chagrin, the Redmax strato engines not only met, but far exceeded the epa's reg's at that time, and would do so for quite some time to come.

As fas as torque with the 4 mix's goes, I'm with those who say it has a LOT at low end. I hate the fact that their trimmers are either on or off, with no easy, smooth middle ground. Kinda bugs me because their BR600's trigger up and down smooth as silk from off throttle to full throttle.

[ddixon7]

Forget it. The EPA has ruined it for us. I bought as much stuff as I could before this all happened but it isn't going to last forever. The Shindaiwa T242 sucks... Bogging out, so I put a brand new 230 muffler on it, solved problem. Tanaka same thing, except I don't have any old style mufflers that fit. Redmax GZ30N motor... Cold blooded as heck, can't stand it. It doesn't seem to effect the blowers as much, but I definitely can tell that the trimmers have went down hill.

[ddixon7]

It all has to do with their crappy mufflers that are honeycombed with cat converters and all that. Except the Redmax, which just doesn't seem to ever want to warm up. Takes 3 minutes minimum even if it was just running 5 minutes ago...

[Ridin' Green]

Originally Posted by ddixon7

It all has to do with their crappy mufflers that are honeycombed with cat converters and all that. Except the Redmax, which just doesn't seem to ever want to warm up. Takes 3 minutes minimum even if it was just running 5 minutes ago...

Try one of the Husky trimmers. I love my little 223L, and I'm gonna add the 323L next year. The 223 starts on the third pull every time cold, first warm. It doesn't bog or hesitate, and has more than enough power for all but the worst trimming conditions like ditches etc. I know Husky owns RM and their blowers are the same, but the trimmers are still different. Can't say enough good about this little 223. The more I use it the more I like it, and I've used it all season.

[ddixon7]

I think I will pick up a Husky for next season. It won't be long before those are dead too. The EPA won't stop until we are all using battery trimmers. It's going to get ugly...

[Ridin' Green]

Originally Posted by ddixon7

I think I will pick up a Husky for next season. It won't be long before those are dead too. The EPA won't stop until we are all using battery trimmers. It's going to get ugly...

I agree. Eventually if they get their way, we'll all be back using the old hand scizzor type shears.
That was one big reason I bought my Husky 570 BTS last fall. I wanted one that was strato charged, but didn't have a stupid and useless CC.

[Richard Martin]

Originally Posted by Ridin' Green

Stihl purchased 100K small 2 stroke strato-charged engines from Redmax to use, but since they had so much invested already in the 4 mix development, they shelved those engines and went full bore at the 4 mix believeing that the epa would eventually force all small engine manu's to follow suit. Then, much to Stihl's chagrin, the Redmax strato engines not only met, but far exceeded the epa's reg's at that time, and would do so for quite some time to come.

There's a little more to this story and it is a critical part of this story.

The EPA was considering and had drawn up draft regulations for much tougher exhaust emissions for hand held 2 stroke equipment. This was being considered for a significant number of years. These new regs were going to force literally all 2 strokes out of the business. That is why Shindaiwa, Stihl and a few others spent significant amounts of money developing their 4 stroke engines.

Then in 2008 the EPA suddenly changed their minds. The story says that the engine manufacturers said that they couldn't make their current engines any cleaner than they already were and the EPA relented and decided to keep the Tier II (the old standard) emissions levels in place.

In their explanation page of the new standards the EPA says:

"We are not adopting new exhaust emission standards for handheld emissions."

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad.../420f08013.htm

Stihl and Shindaiwa got screwed, plain and simple.

[cgaengineer]

The lack of throttle precision on a trimmer has more to do with the linkage setup then what type of engine it is. The throttles are short throw and designed to be used at full throttle most of the time.
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