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  #21  
Old 09-20-2012, 08:57 AM
lawnboy dan lawnboy dan is offline
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i bought a fleet of husky trimmers but am having problems with the lousey zamma carbs now. r martins story about the epa makes sence. hopefully teir 2 will stay in place for a long time.
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  #22  
Old 09-20-2012, 09:02 AM
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LandFakers LandFakers is online now
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I just plain dont want to deal with valves... I know it's probably "easy" to do, but its 30 minutes for each trimmer and blower that just isn't their with the 2 strokes
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  #23  
Old 09-20-2012, 11:20 AM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Martin View Post
There's a little more to this story and it is a critical part of this story.

The EPA was considering and had drawn up draft regulations for much tougher exhaust emissions for hand held 2 stroke equipment. This was being considered for a significant number of years. These new regs were going to force literally all 2 strokes out of the business. That is why Shindaiwa, Stihl and a few others spent significant amounts of money developing their 4 stroke engines.

Then in 2008 the EPA suddenly changed their minds. The story says that the engine manufacturers said that they couldn't make their current engines any cleaner than they already were and the EPA relented and decided to keep the Tier II (the old standard) emissions levels in place.

In their explanation page of the new standards the EPA says:

"We are not adopting new exhaust emission standards for handheld emissions."

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/nonroad.../420f08013.htm

Stihl and Shindaiwa got screwed, plain and simple.
I had the link to the article that I was talking about in our computer, but we recently switched computers and apparently not everything got transfered over to this one, so I can't post it right now. I have posted it here in the past though, and it doesn't quite match what you just posted. Yes, there was more to the entire article- by a long shot, but what I posted was the gist of it.

For one thing, the 4 mix engines were developed long before the regs in your link to the epa were developed and to go into affect (2011 & 2012).

Stihl didn't just get screwed plain and simple. They had already invested quite a bit of time and money in R&D, believed that it was only going to keep getting worse and worse, so they went for it and it bit them in the butt in the end. It (the article) also explains why they shelved 100K new RM engines instead of going ahead and using them while they still coud before the new regs they thought were coming down the road went into place. They certainly had time enough (in terms of actual years between when they bought the engines up until 2011) to sell them all.
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  #24  
Old 09-20-2012, 01:33 PM
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Turf Dawg Turf Dawg is online now
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Since I really do not really care for the new twice bangers, I am pretty sure I am going to give the FS100RX's a try. 1.4 hp at that weight sounds like the good ole days (even though they are four bangers)
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  #25  
Old 09-20-2012, 06:02 PM
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Richard Martin Richard Martin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridin' Green View Post
Stihl didn't just get screwed plain and simple. They had already invested quite a bit of time and money in R&D, believed that it was only going to keep getting worse and worse, so they went for it and it bit them in the butt in the end.
That's pretty much what I was trying to say. If not for the EPA telling the manufacturers that they were going to tighten up the exhaust regs on handheld equipment, Stihl and Shindaiwa would never have "wasted" all of that money on R&D for 4 strokes. Shindaiwa was the company that really took it on the chin. They're now a part of Echo who is part of Kioritz.
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  #26  
Old 09-20-2012, 09:30 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Martin View Post
That's pretty much what I was trying to say. If not for the EPA telling the manufacturers that they were going to tighten up the exhaust regs on handheld equipment, Stihl and Shindaiwa would never have "wasted" all of that money on R&D for 4 strokes. Shindaiwa was the company that really took it on the chin. They're now a part of Echo who is part of Kioritz.

At least Shindiawa was smart enough to leave their big 2 stroke BP's and alot of other handhelds in the lineup until they saw what would really happen. That's another place Stihl screwed themselves.

The EPA may have been started as a well intentioned idea, but they are hurting just about every industry out there, and badly. I imagine that if you could round up all the R&D money, payroll for the engineers,and payoffs taking place under the table, you could make a sizeable dent in the national debt. One thing for sure, it's more than I made this year LOL
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  #27  
Old 09-20-2012, 09:34 PM
yardguy28 yardguy28 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjoman View Post
I got to rant a little bit. I stopped by my local Stihl dealer yesterday for some parts, i looked on the back wall where all the trimmers are and i wanted to cry. Almost everyone of them had the 4-mix motors, the only ones that didn't were the 45,55,70,and 250. Don't get me wrong i like my FS-90's, they are powerful machines but they aren't like the old 2 stroke Stihls. One thing that i don't like is the 4-Mix motors have no low end torque. You pretty much have to hold it wide open to cut, and when i trim i like to use half throttle which you cannot do with the 4-mix trimmers. Taking them in for valve adjustments all the time is a headache too. Stihl use to have the best trimmers in the business like the FS-80,FS-85,FS-120, and FS-200. The FS-120 was one of the best trimmers made, it was around the same price as a FS-90 and it was 30cc's of raw 2-Stroke power. Now, you have to spend $530 to get a good 2-Cycle trimmer which is the FS-250. Me and the salesman had a good discussion about this and i wanted to hear from some of you. Why cant Stihl make 2-Cycle equipment. If Echo,Redmax,Shindaiwa,Husqvarna,Tanaka,Maryuama, and others can still make 2-Cycle trimmers, why cant Stihl. Why cant one of the largest makers of Outdoor power equipment with technology out the wazoo and the best engineers produce 2-Stroke equipment that meets EPA standards?
you wanted to hear from us so here's my response.

in my opinion stihl is the BEST handheld company out there. I like them so well that if I couldn't get stihl I'd close up shop.

I've never had problems with there 2 cycle or 4 mix equipment.

forget echo, redmax, shindy, etc.
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  #28  
Old 09-20-2012, 09:53 PM
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cgaengineer cgaengineer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandFakers View Post
I just plain dont want to deal with valves... I know it's probably "easy" to do, but its 30 minutes for each trimmer and blower that just isn't their with the 2 strokes
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But one pull starting on the 4 strokes and mor hours of run time on a tank of fuel...just isn't there in a two stroke.
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  #29  
Old 09-20-2012, 09:54 PM
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cgaengineer cgaengineer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LandFakers View Post
I just plain dont want to deal with valves... I know it's probably "easy" to do, but its 30 minutes for each trimmer and blower that just isn't their with the 2 strokes
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It's about 5 minutes per motor once you do one and it only has to be done once.
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  #30  
Old 09-20-2012, 09:55 PM
Roger Roger is online now
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For those thinking that 30 minutes to adjust the valves for the life of the trimmer, how many times each year do you grease the gearbox?
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