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Old 10-03-2012, 09:12 PM
Fishallot Fishallot is offline
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How Much N Did I Apply?

Wondering of anyone can help me with this one. I tried something new to me this year by using a fescue seed blend that was treated with what was explained to me as a liquid starter fertilizer at my supply house. This is my own personal lawn which is fairly shaded so i'm trying to keep an accurate measurement of the nitrogen amounts applied. Is there any formula that someone knows of that can tell me how much nitrogen I put down on this yard? I used 50 lbs of this seed to cover 8,000 sq. ft.

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Old 10-03-2012, 10:32 PM
Fishallot Fishallot is offline
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Old 10-07-2012, 12:27 PM
Dave Stuart Dave Stuart is offline
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Nitrogen rate of your seed mixture

Nutrol - a bio type product that acts as a fungicide against powdery mildew and is also a gental phosphate / potassium fertilizer.

Prudent ready ICMB - a liquid concentrated nitrogen source used a a foliar treatment.

Krystal klear turf mix - a micro nutrient blend of copper, zinc, manganese, ect

Ka Pre embella / reme d 8 - soil surfactants that that help with water holding capacity and the prevention of nutrient leaching of soils.

The only substantial nitrogen source is the ICMB at 15% the 50 lb bag lot capacity, which equates to 7.5 actual lbs of nitrogen in the bag.

Over the 8000 square feet applied this equates to .94 lb N / per 1000 square feet.

Dave.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:40 PM
Fishallot Fishallot is offline
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I was starting to think nobody could answer that one. Thank you very much.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:32 PM
Dave Stuart Dave Stuart is offline
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No problem, actually I was off by 15% / the ICMB is at 31 % which puts the total N at 15.5 lbs for the 50 lb bag - this equates to 1.9 lbs of N per 1000 k.

A little higher than normal although the seed pod is sprayed and nitrogen will release in a more timely manner, not all will be utilized effectively there will be some losses such as denitrification, dinitrogen gas and nitric oxide conversion.

Dave.
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Old 10-08-2012, 11:23 AM
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RigglePLC RigglePLC is offline
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Or...you could be a little skeptical...like me. Read the seed label carefully, with a critical eye. Seed was tested in April; germination is not likely as high as it was in April. The "sell by" date is July 13...I hope this stuff was on sale.
Other crop means quackgrass 0.17 percent. At least this is low.
Inert matter is .57 percent--which to me means--the seed treatment listed above is no more than .57 percent of the bag, (less than 2 tenths pound). Those ingredients plus colorant were applied to the seed and then it was dried.

They must think lawn guys are gullible.

I was at home Depot yesterday and looked at some Vigoro tall fescue seed. It showed almost no weed seed, no "other crop", but THEN, it listed as "Undesirable grass types: Poa annua at 9 seeds per pound."

This is so frustrating. When are the seed test labs and government label regulations going to catch up to the 21st century and list poa annua as a weed?
Is there any state that requires poa annua contamination on the seed label?
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:32 PM
Skipster Skipster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Stuart View Post
No problem, actually I was off by 15% / the ICMB is at 31 % which puts the total N at 15.5 lbs for the 50 lb bag - this equates to 1.9 lbs of N per 1000 k.

A little higher than normal although the seed pod is sprayed and nitrogen will release in a more timely manner, not all will be utilized effectively there will be some losses such as denitrification, dinitrogen gas and nitric oxide conversion.

Dave.


I think your analysis is off, Dave.

The percentages you cited were the contents of the seed treatment -- the liquid that is sprayed on the outside of the seed.

If we could see the entire label, it should tell us how much of the seed treatment mixture was applied. But, since we can't see that, we'll have to go back to the seed label.

All seed treatments (as well as chaff) are listed under "inert matter" on the seed label. Since the INERT MATTER section is listed as 0.57% (by weight) of the 50# bag, the seed treatment can make up no more that 0.285# (4.5 oz). With the ICMB being 31% of the seed treatment, the total N in the bag is no more than 0.0855# (1.395 oz).

If you're seeding at 50#/ 8000 sq ft (6.25# product/M), your N rate would be no more than 0.01# N/M.

I don't think this is necessarily a problem, since you're applying seed, NOT a fertilizer. But, I don't think that the things in the seed treatment are going to do you much good.
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Old 10-08-2012, 06:23 PM
Fishallot Fishallot is offline
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Oh trust me I was skeptical of this treated seed but only of the treatment process, not the seed. Weed seed is 0%, inert matter is very low and sell by date is July 2013. I see no problems at all with the seed mixture itself.

The treatment process and actual fert. amounts applied are still not clear to me and it appears as if nobody else completely understands it without more information. If applied treatments are dried on the seed hull then I don't see how it could be counted as inert matter. To me inert matter means loose particiles inside the bag that aren't seed. I don't see where they would count seed treatment still attached to the seed hull as inert matter.

The two pics I posted earlier where the only labels on the bag other than the certified seed label which is as follows.



I'm still skeptical of how much actual fert was applied but I will say this.... This seed was applied on Sept. 14, roughly 3 weeks ago. The yard is irrigated and was kept constantly moist. I saw germination on day 5 and had complete germination by day 10. The new grass is roughly 4" tall and looks beautiful. The lawn will be be mowed later this week for the first time. The existing turf, which has seen no fert since last April, took off like a rocket within a week of this seed being applied, there is no doubt in my mind that there was benefit from however much fert was applied with this seed.

I'm going to contact my supplier to see if I can find out more info on this seed treatment and the amounts applied. Thanks for everyones replies. I appreciate hearing everyones opinons on this.
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:35 PM
Dave Stuart Dave Stuart is offline
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Skip -

You are right, I just realized that I calculated the material like a bag of mineral fertilizer, good catch / was a little sleepy when I read and posted the other night.

Yes the inert being .57% and the weight that was treated with the ICMB at 31% equates to .176 lb or just around .2 / putting the nitrogen for the 8 k at less than .2 # N/M.

I also agree that there is not anything in the seed treatment that will do much good. Best to stay with standard nutrient strategies after emergence of the mesocotyl and initial first tiller.

Dave.
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:57 PM
Fishallot Fishallot is offline
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Wow, that's not very much nitrogen. Not trying to disagree with the knowledge here as I don't know anything about liquid seed treatments but are you guys 100% sure that any seed treatment applied should be listed under inert matter?
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