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Old 11-07-2012, 01:28 AM
bssford460 bssford460 is offline
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kawasaki fh451v wont idle right

exmark metro, fh451v-bs04, the mower always ran good, but had sat for over a year. The engine surges at idle and will only smooth our with the choke about 90% closed, if you close the choke all the way it dies, open it back up just a little and it runs "smooth" but still not right. opening the choke any more than that cause the idle to surge up and down.
I took the carb off the first day and it was all gummed up and of course the "old gas" smell was horrible. I drained the fuel out of the tank and lines and pump. i completely dissembled the carb and let it soak in a gal. of carb cleaner overnight, put it all back together and still did it.
Took the carb off 2-3 more times cleaning it each time.
The plugs are good and have good spark, checked compression, adjusted valves, sprayed carb cleaner around intake and carb gaskets to rule out gasket leak. and even though i don't like messing with governors i readjusted it too. even though it didn't need it and didn't change anything.
The last thing i did to the carb was an old carb cleaning trick that i picked up from a farm equipment web forum and that was to boil the carb in gal. of water with a 1/2 cup of tide detergent for an hour. still nothing.
i've clean, sprayed with cleaner and blown out with compressed so many times i'm sick of it. The only thing left is the needle valve. it "appears" to be in good shape and i think it is doing its job properly. I hate to replace it cause the cheapest one i've found is 15 bucks and have to wait on shipping and i dont think that is the problem. Last but not least, all of the little brass plugs that are pressed into some of the holes in the carb seem to be in place. I'm at my witts end and dont know what else to do. There is a john deere dealership close to me that has an ultrasonic cleaner they said they could put the carb in for $15 but I dont know if that is going to help or not either. Adjusting the pilot air screw with the engine running makes no difference. Can anybody come up with anything else i can try or offer any suggestions. And if push come to shove and i have to order a needle valve. Where is the cheapest/fastest place to get one?
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:48 AM
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dutch1 dutch1 is online now
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If the following link doesn't work, go www.kawpower.com to look up your engine and related carburetor using your engine numbers.

http://kmcb2c.econnect.partsandwarra...MBEROFITEMS=63

Complete disassembly means different things to different people. Since you're new to the site, I'll take the liberty of asking if you removed illustration part numbers 92063,49121, 11003, 92064 and 18014. If you didn't, do so.

The fuel nozzle has a number of small holes that become partially/completely plugged which can affect the running condition. With a torch tip cleaner or with a small wire clear all ports in all associated ports. The pilot jet has a very small orifice in the end--clean it as well with a small wire. Soaking or cooking a carb doesn't always solve the problem.

It's just me, but I wouldn't waste the bucks on an ultrasonic cleaning until you've been through the carb thoroughly. Most likely, if you've done things thoroughly, there could be other conditions that are causing your problem.

The inlet needle shouldn't be causing your problem unless there is a sign of over fueling(running rich).

Last edited by dutch1; 11-07-2012 at 08:52 AM. Reason: add
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:06 AM
bssford460 bssford460 is offline
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Thank you for the reply dutch, unfortunately, When i said i "completely dissembled" I meant completely. Dirtbikes, fourwheelers, lawnmowers, chainsaws, weed eaters, blowers, boats, cars, trucks and tractors. I've had carbs off and apart of all of them. I'm very meticulous when it comes to something like this. I have a computer in my garage and had a diagram similar to the site you posted pulled up on it. All the jets are removed cleaned individually and separated. I have never had this happen before, I take out the shafts/butterflies and everything when i dip a carb.
I'm at loss, and dont know what else to do.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:33 AM
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dutch1 dutch1 is online now
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Have you pulled the blower housing to check the intake gaskets?
Is the vacuum tube to the fuel pump in good condition?

Does the engine run satisfactorily at WOT or is it just an idle problem?
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:06 PM
bssford460 bssford460 is offline
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Yes, the fan shroud came off several days ago, the spacer and the intake gaskets all seem to be in good condition. That is where i was spraying the carb cleaner to see if it would draw any of it into the engine from a faulty gasket.
All of the lines be it fuel lines or vacuum lines are also in good shape.
I also swapped the fuel pump with one from a different mower that i know to be good.
The last time i took the engine to WOT, it did seem to run fine. But maybe not really perfect, but its been over a week ago since i ran it wide open. It could have run smoother than i remember.
At idle the governor rod just sits there and moves up and down constantly causing the idle surge. I've inspected the governor and choke linkage and the governor linkage spring isn't stretched or bent or anything like that.
I've got the carb off right now and have quadruple checked all of the jets for obstructions. I've also double checked the 2 jets in the front of the carb. the 1.2 and the 1.7 to be sure that they were in the proper place.
So i dont know, i'm at a loss. i wish i knew somebody with the same engines that would let me swap carbs and see if it fixes it or not.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:58 PM
bssford460 bssford460 is offline
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Ok, another update, I went ahead and took the carb to a shop close to me with an ultrasonic cleaner, they left it in the cleaner for an hour and a half. I brought it home, put it all back together and cranked the engine. ( fires right up every time regardless of how poor its been running ), at first the idle was smooth, and i thought i had everything fixed. i ran the throttle up to about 1/2 and it started surging. I took it back down to idle and it was still surging. I then got pissed, pulled it out of the garage and put it wot and it was running OK, and not really surging. I engaged the blades and cut a few rounds at WOT and it seemed to be running OK. when i stopped and disengaged the blades it was surging at wot and when it brought it down to idle it died. cranked it back up put it at 1/2 throttle and "surged" it back to the shop and shut it down. pulled the plugs and they looked dry and more white than light brown like maybe its too lean. I dont know, but i'm about to pull my hair out. I've never had anything that is "this simple" be this much of a problem. could it be the needle/float. I leave the gas on. and there isnt any excess gas coming out of the overflow hose. Makes me assume that it isnt getting to much gas in the carb. could it no be letting enough gas into the carb?? I would think if it wasnt getting enough gas that it wouldnt run at WOT. Should i try adjusting the governor again.
With the governor linkage off the governor rod has about 1/2 a turn of play in it that is just free play. when you turn it counter clockwise when the "free play" stops. if you apply a little more pressure you can turn it another 1/8 of a turn but it feels spring loaded and you have to really hold it there, when the manual says to turn the rod counterclock wise does it mean turn it to the end of that "free play" zone. or crank on it and turn it counterclockwise to the end of that spring loaded zone?

Last edited by bssford460; 11-07-2012 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:37 PM
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dutch1 dutch1 is online now
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To avoid typing instructions, check the end of this thread with props to Rob.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.p...ernor+kawasaki
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:25 AM
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I MOW ALONE I MOW ALONE is online now
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does it surge with and without air filter installed? will it smooth out with a little choke?
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Old 11-08-2012, 02:59 PM
bssford460 bssford460 is offline
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it does run different both with and with out the air filter but still surges either way, i'm fixing to go try readjusting the governor and high idle as dutch posted above..
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:04 AM
bssford460 bssford460 is offline
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I've made all the adjustments recommended, The engine still surges at idle, it doesn't miss. and aside from the surging it runs good. it runs good at WOT under a load and not under a load. Cuts and drives good. But alas. still surges at idle, and up to about 1/2 throttle i guess
I'm speechless...
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