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  #51  
Old 12-29-2012, 07:26 PM
CL&T CL&T is offline
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Originally Posted by cpllawncare View Post
SC is a right to work state and companies are moving here for that very reason, the downside is companies pretty much do as they please, with no backlash from the state. The state loves it because they can proclaim themselves as a corporate friendly state and recruit companies from all over the world, without ever looking at employee satisfaction. When boeing moved here to get away from the unions, all they talked about was they would pay the same wages as they did in washington state, but now people are seeing that it's not the wages that's the issue, it how management treats the associates, that's the BIG difference, as is the case with most all the big companies now. Who cares if you make $30-40 a hour if you get treated like crap day in day out.
Right to work DOES NOT mean that you can't have or there are no unions. As I said above, all it means is that an employee of a union company can opt-out of union membership (they have the right to work there). It also means that union CONSTRUCTION jobs can have subs that are non-union (they have the right to work)- provided they pay their employees prevailing wage. With prevailing wage the payroll and workers are carefully audited and there have been cases where cheaters (employers) have gone to jail or paid big fines.

As for companies moving there, like I said NY is a right to work state also and no company wants to move here. Why? Nothing to do with unions and all to do with how the state treats businesses tax and restriction wise.

Employee satisfaction was never a function of the state. That's why unions were created, to level the playing field between labor and management and give labor the power to demand fair treatment. Without them, especially today, businesses will take advantage of their employees any way they can to maximize profit. Why do you think businesses hate unions?
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  #52  
Old 12-29-2012, 10:54 PM
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Kelly's Landscaping Kelly's Landscaping is offline
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Originally Posted by CL&T View Post
Right to work DOES NOT mean that you can't have or there are no unions. As I said above, all it means is that an employee of a union company can opt-out of union membership (they have the right to work there). It also means that union CONSTRUCTION jobs can have subs that are non-union (they have the right to work)- provided they pay their employees prevailing wage. With prevailing wage the payroll and workers are carefully audited and there have been cases where cheaters (employers) have gone to jail or paid big fines.

As for companies moving there, like I said NY is a right to work state also and no company wants to move here. Why? Nothing to do with unions and all to do with how the state treats businesses tax and restriction wise.

Employee satisfaction was never a function of the state. That's why unions were created, to level the playing field between labor and management and give labor the power to demand fair treatment. Without them, especially today, businesses will take advantage of their employees any way they can to maximize profit. Why do you think businesses hate unions?
Both New York and New Jersey had multiple reported incidents of non union line workers being threatened assaulted one guy has his jaw broken and swears and insults thrown at them. Why because they were kind enough to drive up here 1000 miles to try to put the power back on after sandy and the morons yea I said it moron union workers couldn't look past their bias and wanted them gone. Some were with out power for more than a month and for union thugs I guess that wasn't long enough. Next door in PA there are 2 cases of construction yards vandalized this year the last this week over 500k in damage done by union thugs because they were non union. Unions need to be banned intimidation and election fraud is all they do these days.

We have a labor dept we have osha we have mining safety agency's. The reason from them existing isn't what it use to be they are greedy and redundant.
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  #53  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:57 AM
CL&T CL&T is offline
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Originally Posted by Kelly's Landscaping View Post
Both New York and New Jersey had multiple reported incidents of non union line workers being threatened assaulted one guy has his jaw broken and swears and insults thrown at them. Why because they were kind enough to drive up here 1000 miles to try to put the power back on after sandy and the morons yea I said it moron union workers couldn't look past their bias and wanted them gone. Some were with out power for more than a month and for union thugs I guess that wasn't long enough. Next door in PA there are 2 cases of construction yards vandalized this year the last this week over 500k in damage done by union thugs because they were non union. Unions need to be banned intimidation and election fraud is all they do these days.

We have a labor dept we have osha we have mining safety agency's. The reason from them existing isn't what it use to be they are greedy and redundant.
I did hear that one about the out of town workers but I don't think it ever went past heresay. I also heard that there was a lot of copper theft going on as well as workers being threatened and assaulted, even at gunpoint by people who wanted them to restore their power right now. I suspect the rest of what you quote is more of the same- anti-union propaganda. What could be a more perfect time, with thousands of people already looking for blood, than to blame their problems on the big bad unions.

Last edited by CL&T; 12-30-2012 at 12:01 PM.
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  #54  
Old 12-30-2012, 04:46 PM
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Kelly's Landscaping Kelly's Landscaping is offline
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http://articles.philly.com/2012-12-2...uction-workers that took me all of 10 seconds to find. Unions are no good I use to be forced to be in one if you can't see it I feel sorry for ya.
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  #55  
Old 12-30-2012, 05:04 PM
Duekster Duekster is offline
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We should send the union to china.
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  #56  
Old 12-30-2012, 06:05 PM
CL&T CL&T is offline
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The site where Chestnut Hill Friends Meeting is building a new meetinghouse was damaged by arsonists during Christmas week, and police are now "absolutely" sure the attack was the result of a dispute between members of a Philadelphia construction union and the project's nonunion contractor.
Sure, happens all the time. It was a non-union job that did not pay prevailing wage. But what's that got to do with Sandy? When I was a non-union EC a union guy threatened to throw one of my guys down an elevator shaft. The GC paid the union off and they shut up. I have a friend who is an non-union commercial interior renovation contractor. The carpenters union picketed both across the street from his office and on each of his jobs for years. They finally gave up and went away when they saw nobody was paying attention to them but he did lose a big account because the customer didn't want that going on in front of his building. I'm certainly not saying that that kind of stuff is right and you can see how right to work means nothing in cases like that.

From what I understand, the utility workers buried the hatchet during the Sandy recovery (as well as the storms before it) and worked together. The locals realized that there was just no way they were going to be able to handle it themselves.
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  #57  
Old 12-30-2012, 07:03 PM
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Kelly's Landscaping Kelly's Landscaping is offline
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Prevailing wage is a bs weasel word. You find that a lot in government contracts in heavily Dem states. Doesn't matter that the job could be done for a fraction of the money and that the tax payers who ultimately are paying the bill are the ones getting screwed. What matters is the unions money continues to flow uninterrupted to the DNC. They buy the Dems and the Dems owe them and Prevailing wage is one of the unholy pay offs. And I have seen government contracts that spelled out exactly what I had to pay my guys if I took the job. And that wage didn't reflect reality at all. Why put a project out to bid at all if your telling the contractors what the bid is going to be before they ever look at the specs.

Now I get it your pro union but your on a lawn care site whose members are overwhelmingly non union business owners. What I don't get is why your so misguided. I mentioned sandy not so I could debate sandy no I was just bringing up yet another group of recent incidents where unions don't give a damn about the rest of us or what is best for the country.
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  #58  
Old 12-30-2012, 07:11 PM
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cpllawncare cpllawncare is offline
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I worked for a very short period of time as a lineman, and was shocked at how we got treated when we went on storms, we had entire trucks get stolen while we would be a few blocks away restoring power. We went into a trailer park and were blocked in until everybodies power was back on, we ended up having to call police to get us out. I know unions aren't all they're cracked up to be, I wish there were a way to get some of these big companies to treat their workers right, BMW is constantly crying they can't get enough workers here, yet they just got rid of 500 employees for so called quality infractions, that's the second time this year they've done that, how many workers do they think they have in this area? They have to lie cheat and steal to get anybody in there now. They had the nerve to call me two weeks ago and ask if I would come back? I was like YEA RIGHT You don't have enough money to get me back.
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  #59  
Old 12-30-2012, 10:31 PM
CL&T CL&T is offline
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Originally Posted by cpllawncare View Post
I know unions aren't all they're cracked up to be, I wish there were a way to get some of these big companies to treat their workers right, BMW is constantly crying they can't get enough workers here, yet they just got rid of 500 employees for so called quality infractions, that's the second time this year they've done that, how many workers do they think they have in this area? They have to lie cheat and steal to get anybody in there now. They had the nerve to call me two weeks ago and ask if I would come back? I was like YEA RIGHT You don't have enough money to get me back.
Exactly the point. Do some unions abuse their power and the law? Absolutely! But overall unions have done more good for workers than any harm they are said to have created for businesses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelly's Landscaping
Prevailing wage is a bs weasel word. You find that a lot in government contracts in heavily Dem states. Doesn't matter that the job could be done for a fraction of the money and that the tax payers who ultimately are paying the bill are the ones getting screwed. What matters is the unions money continues to flow uninterrupted to the DNC. They buy the Dems and the Dems owe them and Prevailing wage is one of the unholy pay offs. And I have seen government contracts that spelled out exactly what I had to pay my guys if I took the job. And that wage didn't reflect reality at all. Why put a project out to bid at all if your telling the contractors what the bid is going to be before they ever look at the specs.

Now I get it your pro union but your on a lawn care site whose members are overwhelmingly non union business owners. What I don't get is why your so misguided. I mentioned sandy not so I could debate sandy no I was just bringing up yet another group of recent incidents where unions don't give a damn about the rest of us or what is best for the country.
It's correct that you will see union or prevailing wage in public work contracts. That's because the government has an interest in making sure the workers on those jobs get paid a living wage and benefits and the contractors aren't putting it all in their pockets. As far as contributions to the DNC, it's no different than businesses, corporations and the 1%'rs contributing to the RNC who believe that paying $8/hr is best for this country.

Actually I am not pro or anti-union. I only call it as I see it. Unions only care about their members, it's the government and politicians that are supposed to care about the rest of us and we could go on for days talking about what slime they are.
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  #60  
Old 12-31-2012, 09:40 AM
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Kelly's Landscaping Kelly's Landscaping is offline
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Originally Posted by CL&T View Post
. Unions only care about their members,
Now thats the funniest thing you've written thus far. Now I have a sister in a public service union for the state. And when it gets tight and there is no money to give these blood suckers how do they vote. Do they vote to freeze wages that year so all their members (the members they care about) keep their jobs. NOPE they vote for raises that result in 2000-5000 of their members getting fired with out fail. What do they care its done by seniority not work quality or attitude. No you're been here 20 years your burnt out and do more harm than good you get to keep your job. Instead the 10 year and under guys the ones who still believe in their work you guys got to go your seniors want their raises.

Unions care about Marxism that is always the goal. Sometimes they slip up and mention it but usually they are careful not to use the C work but socialism or progressivism doesn't have the same impact in peoples minds yet so they gleefully admit to it and contribute too it. As for the business and corporations contributing to the RNC they tend to be industries that make under 20% profits usually under 10%. The industries that make money with out much effort Google, Microsoft, Apple, Investment banks, Insurance ,Wall street, the entertainment industry , Hedge funds , Foundations they tend to overwhelmingly give to the DNC. After all money comes easy when you push paper or use Asian non union sweatshops to make your product so why not demand others pay more its easy to demand that when you don't have a clue what your talking about.

The 1%s give to the party that best reflect them and how they made their money. The guys that own a business they built from the ground up and put their lives into give to the RNC. The guys who married into their money Senator Kerry and Wife, the actors that got their breaks because their parents were actors, Trial Lawyers who make their money extorting people John Edwards, The ones that inherited their money they give to the DNC.
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