Riders vs. Walkbehinds...my experience after one season

[P.Services]

Originally Posted by whiffyspark

We pay less than 6k for new 60" lazer zs. S series, no need for the x series in our properties.


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I find that really hard to believe that your paying less then $6,000 for a S-series.
I can get top level fleet pricing and i know i wont be close to 6k.


If your sure of that can you pm me your dealer ?

[EquityGreen]

Originally Posted by Turf Tracer

biggest engine eXmark offers on whatever mower...I usually pop the engine and put on a bigger one.

2 standard mulch blades or 2x low lift...less drag.

No Bagging.

Is this hard on the spindles? I would love to try. Especially in the summer when it should be mulched anyways.
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[TriCountyLawn]

Originally Posted by Turf Tracer

ECS is easy on the hands and wrists. You were on pistols.

No actually they aren't

[StanWilhite]

Originally Posted by HenryB

A solid 2 wheel sulky is probably better on the body than sitting all day. Rider mowers even sitting or driving all day is hell on the lower spine (discs).

I was thinking the same thing while reading this.

[Snapper Jack]

Originally Posted by SDLandscapes VT

Whiffyspark

During graduate school I had the opportunity to work at a company that had over 20 mowing crews out of two shops and I argued and argued for more Z's for all of the above reasons--less fatigue, "faster," more "efficient" etc. And we would spar back and forth about this issue. They took care of all commercial and multi family sites all on the larger end of the spectrum. They had over 20 years of equipment data on cost of ownership and ROI and frankly it's damning. I completed school and returned to VT where we ramped up the business I left before school. I was convinced that a fleet of riders was the way to go, but I found that it was eating up too much time and money for the little bit that they saved in "efficiency" We jumped in with both feet, conceded to the data, and couldnt be happier with the results both in quality and to the bottom line. What I am saying is this is a big trend--Brickman uses a high percentage of walkbehinds, Prescription (www.rxlandscape.com) made the switch, Proturf made the switch, and many other companies are making the switch.

And you talk about people who know how to cut grass--we have such a labor shortage that we need to make all the processes bulletproof and minimize damage potential as we are lucky to get breathing employees.

The takeaway here is not to use Z's or not to use Z's but to know what your operating costs are so that you are charging accordingly for recovery and profit.

I don't know what ranking"Landmark" is but they use a mix of WB's and Z's due to the vast differences in the mountainous terrain in my region.

[Kelly's Landscaping]

Originally Posted by LandFakers

I haven't broken down any of my fuel usage, efficiency ratio, but seeing as I only have a small operation, I need the ZTR for the bagging abilities alone! The only complaint I have with the Zero is that it's almost impossible to mow on a wet and soft lawn. You can make a lawn look like cornrows real quick

Same here we pull out as much as 25 yards of grass a week in early spring and while that drops to less than 10 a week in summer the ZTR is a necessity.

Hence the reason for me and big trucks do I need 4500s no I could work with 3500s but nothing smaller I need the ability to carry 5 yards of clippings with the trailer. And dumping has massively improved my time savings over the years from when we started with 1500 pick ups and got to spend 30 mins a truck emptying it with pitch forks. But we don't just mow and we do need at-least one truck that can carry 3-4 yards of top soil at a clip. It may sound expensive to run 2 big mowing trucks but its cheaper than running 2 smaller ones and having to own a 3rd that sits idle for most of the time. Also I bought my trucks with resale in mind at around 75000 miles with the lessons I have learned over the years on what trucks come up for sale and what trucks never do.

Side bagging on a walk-behind is 3-5 times slower than bagging with a trac vac on our ZTRs. And when one of vacs goes down I get a nice does of reality and how much of an advantage having the vac is. And we see our income drop too 500-600s per day on that crew so the use of the bagger for us can not be over stated.

[SDLandscapes VT]

We did bag exclusively as well--still do on certain properties or portions of properties because of landscape features, the house etc, and we just can t let clippings fly. We stopped as we realized how much time handling clippings was taking in our day as well as the injury potential for employees flinging full 9.5/10 bushel tarp loads into the one ton (I do have a one ton). We have seen a huge jump in turf health since we stopped bagging and have taken the heavy mowers off. We do have a walker for bagging and depending on growth will probably pick up a navigator--machines for exclusive bagging and that spread the weight of the bagging out and reducing compaction--as fast as a Z--depends on the situation--wide open a Z will destroy a 5-wheel mower. We don't have many wide open areas.

But for the bulk of the season and for the long term (season after season) as Pro turf listed the walkbehinds are money makers. I m not saying what you are doing is wrong--I m just encouraging everyone on this board and in this industry to know exactly what everything costs and to price work accordingly. Armed with that information somethings that seem counter intuitive (like walking) suddenly make a huge amount of financial sense

[Snapper Jack]

Originally Posted by Kelly's Landscaping

Same here we pull out as much as 25 yards of grass a week in early spring and while that drops to less than 10 a week in summer the ZTR is a necessity.

Hence the reason for me and big trucks do I need 4500s no I could work with 3500s but nothing smaller I need the ability to carry 5 yards of clippings with the trailer. And dumping has massively improved my time savings over the years from when we started with 1500 pick ups and got to spend 30 mins a truck emptying it with pitch forks. But we don't just mow and we do need at-least one truck that can carry 3-4 yards of top soil at a clip. It may sound expensive to run 2 big mowing trucks but its cheaper than running 2 smaller ones and having to own a 3rd that sits idle for most of the time. Also I bought my trucks with resale in mind at around 75000 miles with the lessons I have learned over the years on what trucks come up for sale and what trucks never do.

Side bagging on a walk-behind is 3-5 times slower than bagging with a trac vac on our ZTRs. And when one of vacs goes down I get a nice does of reality and how much of an advantage having the vac is. And we see our income drop too 500-600s per day on that crew so the use of the bagger for us can not be over stated.

Would it not be more efficient in cost savings just to double cut rather than bagging and dumping all the clippings? or is it cuz you have high end cliental that demand this servive?

[SDLandscapes VT]

we double cut

[Snapper Jack]

Originally Posted by SDLandscapes VT

we double cut

Read your post above and I agree,bagging seems to rob the turf of nutrients. I have one customer who had her lawn bagged and since I've taken over with double cutting, she's commented that her lawn look's much healthier.