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  #51  
Old 02-08-2013, 06:45 PM
Skipster Skipster is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phasthound View Post
What on earth are you talking about??? Those who have made the move to increase SOM & soil biology have substantially reduced fungal disease problems.
Do you have any data to support this?
  #52  
Old 02-08-2013, 07:08 PM
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ELS Landscape ELS Landscape is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
Do you have any data to support this?
Or dispute?
  #53  
Old 02-08-2013, 08:20 PM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
Do you have any data to support this?
Does it matter?

Originally Posted by phasthound
Managing soil microbiology populations is critical to enhancing soil structures, nutrient cycling, and defending against diseases.
Read this introductory publication:
http://soils.usda.gov/sqi/concepts/s..._food_web.html

Skipster replied:
How do you propose managing soil microbiology populations? Your link doesn't provide any insight that is different from what we've discussed previously. SmallAxe might say, "Now that we know the WHY, we need to know HOW to manage these populations.

Your link backs up the uniersity links we've looked at before -- it tells us that microbes are their most active in healthy and robust plant systems. This link supports the conventional management view over the "feed the microbes" view.


You do realize that the author (Dr. Elaine Ingham) of that publication is the most vocal proponent of the "feed the microbes" view? Now, I don't agree with all of her conclusions, but I would not spin her work like you did by saying her work supports your viewpoint.

IMHO, "microbes are their most active in healthy and robust plant systems" is correct because the microbial activity plays an important part in creating and maintaining "healthy and robust plant systems". You can't have one without the other.

As I have said many times, there is no miracle bullet: nutrition, irrigation, cultural methods, soil parent material, physical structure and microbes all play important roles in healthy turf. And healthy turf does not just mean green grass.

We have different opinions, so be it.
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The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
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  #54  
Old 02-08-2013, 08:50 PM
turfmd101 turfmd101 is offline
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No argument here... Life has a plan of it's own. If that were said any better it might bust skips, fingertips.
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  #55  
Old 02-09-2013, 08:26 AM
Smallaxe Smallaxe is offline
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If SOM is the magic bean that improves soil,,, then we needn't concern ourselves with water interaction with soils... drainage and retention need to be in balance and structure needs to go deeper into the profile every year or the cultural practices are sub-standard...

so is better structure built when the surface is never dry??? or ,,, is the structure more productive when the soil(not just the grass) is allowed to dry to the depth of an inch or more???

I say the latter... am I wrong??? What can specifically answer this question???
Does anyone want to bet that anything can happen OTHER THAN a specific answer to that question...
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Now that I know that clay's texture(platelets) has nothing to do with water infiltration, percolation, or drainage
,,, I wonder what does...
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  #56  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:49 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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What question? All I see is incoherent rambling. But then, one might be able to provide their own answers if they would learn how soils are formed and the processes involved.
  #57  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:50 AM
Kiril Kiril is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skipster View Post
Do you have any data to support this?
One well cited example.

http://www2.gcsaa.org/gcm/1997/july97/07bio.html
  #58  
Old 02-09-2013, 09:55 AM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smallaxe View Post
If SOM is the magic bean that improves soil,,, then we needn't concern ourselves with water interaction with soils... drainage and retention need to be in balance and structure needs to go deeper into the profile every year or the cultural practices are sub-standard...

so is better structure built when the surface is never dry??? or ,,, is the structure more productive when the soil(not just the grass) is allowed to dry to the depth of an inch or more???

I say the latter... am I wrong??? What can specifically answer this question???
Does anyone want to bet that anything can happen OTHER THAN a specific answer to that question...
No there is no "magic bean". Did you forget to read this line in my post?
As I have said many times, there is no miracle bullet: nutrition, irrigation, cultural methods, soil parent material, physical structure and microbes all play important roles in healthy turf. And healthy turf does not just mean green grass.
The best specific answer to your question is "irrigation techniques alone will not build soil structure". So my question to you is why do you think irrigation is the "magic bean"?
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Barry Draycott

The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
Franklin D. Roosevelt
  #59  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:08 AM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiril View Post
Gee, we've been told that there is no scientific data, and yet Dr. Nelson's article sites over 60 papers as references. How is that possible???
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Barry Draycott

The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
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  #60  
Old 02-09-2013, 10:17 AM
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phasthound phasthound is offline
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And we can ignore this fact sheet from Cornell because it doesn't mention turf grass.
http://nmsp.cals.cornell.edu/publica...actsheet41.pdf

Conventional fertilizers alone will provide a green lawn, but without the physical, chemical and biological benefits to soils that SOM can provide.
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Barry Draycott

The nation that destroys its soil destroys itself.
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