Register free!
Search
 
     

The Green Industry's Resource Center


Click for Weather
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-25-2013, 06:23 PM
ed2hess's Avatar
ed2hess ed2hess is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Austin Texas 78727
Posts: 11,568
Kaw 13HP Twin Cycl. Starts Hard

FH381V AS29-R. The machine doesn't want to start after sitting over nite. If I put a small squik of quick start away it goes. And it will start on almost the first pull the rest of day. New plugs, new gas filter, valves set, carb overhaul last year.

As an experiment I shut off the gas from the tank and let the machine run until it died. The fuel filter was on the pump side of the cut off and it was not sucked dry when engine stopped Then I opened up the fuel cutoff and the machine wouldn't start until I hit it with quick start. I am leaning heavy to fuel pump, am I correct? Unit is going into fourth year. Both spark plug coil replaced last year.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-25-2013, 06:32 PM
Restrorob's Avatar
Restrorob Restrorob is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Show'n my truck off !
Posts: 10,686
Ed,

The fuel filter will not empty because you closed off any way for the pump to suck any air, It's got to get air to empty a filter. The fact it wouldn't start after you reopened the valve is because you ran the float bowl empty, Otherwise it takes a half dozen pulls to re-fill the bowl for start-up.

Check the choke butterfly and make sure it's closing FULLY when choke is applied.....
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by piston slapper View Post
You never learn anything until you admit you don't know it all...

"Why go out preserved when you can go out beat up, worn out, sliding in sideways screaming, Holy Sh!t What A Ride" !!!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-25-2013, 06:53 PM
ed2hess's Avatar
ed2hess ed2hess is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Austin Texas 78727
Posts: 11,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restrorob View Post
Ed,

The fuel filter will not empty because you closed off any way for the pump to suck any air, It's got to get air to empty a filter. The fact it wouldn't start after you reopened the valve is because you ran the float bowl empty, Otherwise it takes a half dozen pulls to re-fill the bowl for start-up.

Check the choke butterfly and make sure it's closing FULLY when choke is applied.....
Ok that all makes sense. The chokea is dead closed absolutely necessary
on this unit. I can pull until I get tired and it will not start. One little bitty squirk of ether and away she goes. And I can shut if off and on at intervals of about 10 minutes and it starts right up. But after 12 hours no startee. Fuel filter is new.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-25-2013, 07:47 PM
Restrorob's Avatar
Restrorob Restrorob is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Show'n my truck off !
Posts: 10,686
Take a look inside the spark plug boots and see if there's any rust or corrosion.....
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by piston slapper View Post
You never learn anything until you admit you don't know it all...

"Why go out preserved when you can go out beat up, worn out, sliding in sideways screaming, Holy Sh!t What A Ride" !!!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-25-2013, 08:57 PM
ed2hess's Avatar
ed2hess ed2hess is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Austin Texas 78727
Posts: 11,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restrorob View Post
Take a look inside the spark plug boots and see if there's any rust or corrosion.....
I will look but this unit had the spark plugs replaced and I use a diaelectric when I put the wires back on. The wires are less than a year old but I will take another look. At least one side should fire.

I am hoping you don't suggest I go into that carb. It has that little hidden chamber that you have to pry the lid off then glue it back. I don't like gluing inside a carb. By the way I checked to be sure it wasn't leaking fuel into the carb overnite but it was dry as a bone.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-25-2013, 09:25 PM
Restrorob's Avatar
Restrorob Restrorob is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Show'n my truck off !
Posts: 10,686
Quote:
Originally Posted by ed2hess View Post
It has that little hidden chamber that you have to pry the lid off then glue it back.

Huh, I've never heard of such or done anything like that ?

Is it shown in this pic ?



How many hours are on this engine..... Guestimate ?

There's a few things that could be causing this, Low/weak compression (not pulling enough fuel when cold), Slightly restricted main circuit in the carb, Weak spark when cold even though the coils were replaced. Leaking intake manifold gaskets, It's just going to be a process of elimination until you find the culprit.....
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by piston slapper View Post
You never learn anything until you admit you don't know it all...

"Why go out preserved when you can go out beat up, worn out, sliding in sideways screaming, Holy Sh!t What A Ride" !!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-26-2013, 08:11 AM
piston slapper's Avatar
piston slapper piston slapper is online now
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa Fl
Posts: 4,021
As RestroRob stated...without knowing the hours on the engine...its a tough call....
Being that it is a Kaw Twin...I would check the valve adjustments..
Adjusting the valves seems to fix a lot of different problems...
__________________
If You Have All The Answers...Except The One You Need...You're Not Trying Hard Enough...
Do The Work
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-26-2013, 09:54 AM
ed2hess's Avatar
ed2hess ed2hess is offline
LawnSite Fanatic
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Austin Texas 78727
Posts: 11,568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restrorob View Post
Huh, I've never heard of such or done anything like that ?

Is it shown in this pic ?



How many hours are on this engine..... Guestimate ?

There's a few things that could be causing this, Low/weak compression (not pulling enough fuel when cold), Slightly restricted main circuit in the carb, Weak spark when cold even though the coils were replaced. Leaking intake manifold gaskets, It's just going to be a process of elimination until you find the culprit.....
When I get unit back to my place I will pull carb and take picture of chamber.
Hours about 700. Temp here is aroun 60F. On the intake manifold gasket is it possible to get ether spout near them to squirt when running?


Quote:
Originally Posted by piston slapper View Post
As RestroRob stated...without knowing the hours on the engine...its a tough call....
Being that it is a Kaw Twin...I would check the valve adjustments..
Adjusting the valves seems to fix a lot of different problems...
I did adjust the valves this winter. Don't know if it was starting hard
all summer and not reported to me. I will recheck the valves.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-26-2013, 10:21 AM
piston slapper's Avatar
piston slapper piston slapper is online now
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa Fl
Posts: 4,021
Ed....adjusting the choke has fixed 90% of the kaw engines I have come across that are experiencing the problem you have...
It might also be an intake gasket leaking...is one or both of the sparkplugs whitish.??
__________________
If You Have All The Answers...Except The One You Need...You're Not Trying Hard Enough...
Do The Work
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-26-2013, 11:03 AM
piston slapper's Avatar
piston slapper piston slapper is online now
LawnSite Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Tampa Fl
Posts: 4,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by Restrorob View Post
Take a look inside the spark plug boots and see if there's any rust or corrosion.....
Another thing to check is the airgaps on the coils...
If the coils are too close to the flywheel...you will have a weak spark when the engine is cold..
When the engine warms up...the engine expands the airgaps from .002 to .004.....allowing the engine to start every time...
__________________
If You Have All The Answers...Except The One You Need...You're Not Trying Hard Enough...
Do The Work
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1998 - 2012, LawnSite.comô - Moose River Media
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:59 AM.

Page generated in 0.08089 seconds with 8 queries