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  #271  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:23 PM
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dstifel dstifel is online now
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the 2nd amendment was written to protect us from the government. So if the government still carries muskets then yes i could see the argument but they do not. If muskets were the only gun out there and criminals couldn't get other guns then again yes i could see the argument but the point is in order to protect ourselves then a musket will not cut it.
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  #272  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:27 PM
birddseedd birddseedd is offline
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That is a illegitimate question. I would recommend you actually read the constitution as it is the document that defines who we are as a people.

now, to answer your question. I think it is worded perfectly. You would have to understand why exactly it was written the way it was. Think about the revolution. Why were the colonists able to fight off brittian when so many countries were unable to. It was because we were on an equal playing field with them. Now for a little history. We are not the first democracy. there have been many others before us. the athean republic for example. Every one of them ended up in tyranny. Now look at modern day tyrannic leaders and their quotes.

"The most foolish mistake we coudl possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doioing so" adolf hitler

"we don't let them have ideas. why woudl we let them have guns?" joseph stalin

"One man with a gun can control 100 without one" vladimir lenin

"all political powers comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party" mao tze tung

now. what does the constitution say? "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the peopel to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed"

In short. The founding fathers knew that a democracy is temporary, so they set up a way to make the people equal in power as the government military. This gives us the ability to protect ourselves from what the constitution calls a "tyrannical government". What this means is we have the ability to revolt, and start another revolution and actually stand a chance at being successfull.

Now, if you dont think this will happen to us, even tho it has happoned to everyone else. I encourage you to read two pieces of legislation. the patriot act, and the NDAA. between these two pieces of legislation we have lost our 3rd amendment rights; our fourth amendment rights; and our fifth amendment rights. It has even been used to strip people of their 1st amendment rights.

You have the right to be protected from unlawfull searches. but not with the patriot act.
You have the right to a trial, and counsil and to be judged by a jury of your peers. but not with the patriot act and ndaa.
You have the right to not have officers break into your houses without a court order. but not with the ndaa.

If you do not think this is a problem, then read about how many people were imprisoned for months after 911. innocent citizens, imprisoned because of the color of their skin. Or even watch the videos of people being dragged out of their homes by officers after the recent Boston attack.

These things go directly against the constitution, we have lost our most hollowed human liberties rights and freedoms. and the only defense that we have when democracy inevitably fails, is a revolution. but if the government has superior weapons. we will not stand a chance. and that day, we will become slaves.
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wait why do you prefer Scag? I thought you owned a Bobcat that mowed the first American Colonies
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  #273  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:29 PM
birddseedd birddseedd is offline
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Well we still can own them. Private companies make the weapons and own them until sold. I like the system except for ccl's and I think its to easy to buy rifles. I can walk into a gun show and buy stuff no questions ask. I think they should have something like what we do for alcohol. Have a gun buyers license you show to the seller or something like that. Someone who can't own a gun can buy one pretty easy at gun shows. Yes I know the government would make is complicated as heck if they did. I also don't think we should change the constitution because we should be able to always challenge the goverment if need be and not end up like germany in WWII or russia under stolin.
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They did a background check on me at the show the other day. only took a minute. and while i was not required to give my ssn number, i was quick to do so as there are multiple people with my first and last name that are felons
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wait why do you prefer Scag? I thought you owned a Bobcat that mowed the first American Colonies
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  #274  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:31 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstifel View Post
the 2nd amendment was written to protect us from the government. So if the government still carries muskets then yes i could see the argument but they do not. If muskets were the only gun out there and criminals couldn't get other guns then again yes i could see the argument but the point is in order to protect ourselves then a musket will not cut it.
This is a good answer.


Ducke-
The 2A was a for-thought by our founding fathers to allow us a way to prevent the newly formed gov't here from ever becoming exactly the same as what they had came here to escape, a tyranny. The genius of it is that is transcends time, and is always applicable regardless of what weaponry is currently in use.
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  #275  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:34 PM
birddseedd birddseedd is offline
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Originally Posted by Ridin' Green View Post
This is a good answer.


Ducke-
The 2A was a for-thought by our founding fathers to allow us a way to prevent the newly formed gov't here from ever becoming exactly the same as what they had came here to escape, a tyranny. The genius of it is that is transcends time, and is always applicable regardless of what weaponry is currently in use.
Problem is, so many of hte masses are egar to hand in their guns. there are not enough people that value what they mean. they refuse logic and statistical fact. that fact is. guns save more lives than what they take. but you will never read about it in the news because its not popular news.

We will NOT be able to fight back because there are not enough of us willing to fight for our families, let alone our freedom. when the president and other officials say "we are not leaving office" thats it. we will lose. there are not enough of us with the ability to fight against them. too many of us have handed in our guns and traded them for welfare.
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wait why do you prefer Scag? I thought you owned a Bobcat that mowed the first American Colonies
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  #276  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:39 PM
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JCLawn and more JCLawn and more is online now
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Originally Posted by birddseedd View Post
They did a background check on me at the show the other day. only took a minute. and while i was not required to give my ssn number, i was quick to do so as there are multiple people with my first and last name that are felons
Is that a MI thing? I was pretty sure when I went to knob creek they didn't have that. Could be very well wrong though. I thought the background checks were for handguns only.
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  #277  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:40 PM
birddseedd birddseedd is offline
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Originally Posted by JCLawn and more View Post
Is that a MI thing? I was pretty sure when I went to knob creek they didn't have that. Could be very well wrong though. I thought the background checks were for handguns only.
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I bought a handgun
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Originally Posted by jrs.landscaping View Post
wait why do you prefer Scag? I thought you owned a Bobcat that mowed the first American Colonies
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  #278  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:46 PM
Ridin' Green Ridin' Green is offline
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Any dealer at a gun show is supposed to run a BC for any gun sale unless the buyer has their CPL to show them. It's no big deal to do. They all have smart phones now days anyway.
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  #279  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:47 PM
birddseedd birddseedd is offline
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i do not think that counts for long guns
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wait why do you prefer Scag? I thought you owned a Bobcat that mowed the first American Colonies
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  #280  
Old 04-25-2013, 09:50 PM
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Ducke Ducke is offline
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Quote:
The 2A was a for-thought by our founding fathers
do you think they for could have ever imagined what the world would be today?
Again I state I have no problem with owning a gun/guns for self protection, What I question is all this fear of the government, Maybe I'm naive living here in Canada with the government that we have and the constitution we have.
Yes our Government enacts laws security of the people and as long as your not doing anything wrong there is no worries of them coming in and "Dragging me out of my house by my hair" as in Boston we once back in the late 60's had the FLQ crisis here and Marshal law was used to round them up before they killed more. I find this whole thing a fascinating topic and really appreciate your calm explanations of your thoughts about it. after all we are neighbors.
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